--- Log opened Tue May 06 19:17:43 2008
19:17:43-!- Overand [i=overand@pdpc/supporter/active/Overand] has joined #indiananorthcarolinaprimary
19:17:43-!- Irssi: #indiananorthcarolinaprimary: Total of 28 nicks [0 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 28 normal]
19:17:43-!- Irssi: Join to #indiananorthcarolinaprimary was synced in 0 secs
19:17:49< tommorris> It'd be so nice if this were wrapped up in the next 24h and Obama could become the next president without HRC meddling
19:17:49< Overand> heh
19:17:52-!- Poundo [n=narbone@mail.majec.com] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
19:17:56< zapATIsta> hi overand.
19:18:00< Overand> zapATIsta: 'allo.
19:18:06< amyloo> adam you should do it. good karma if not much concrete benefit
19:18:11< christophercarfi> tommorris that would be nice
19:18:14-!- Tim_B [n=chatzill@f055064133.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
19:18:18< adamrg> nonmyopicdave: yeah, but I'm from the "soviet" of Washington, so I want to see if we can push the percentage north of 65% :P
19:18:35< nonmyopicdave> Amyloo, what was the vibe in South Bend?
19:18:43-!- stevegio [n=steve@209.sub-70-210-128.myvzw.com] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
19:18:44< tmanternach> will someone on the fucking tv point out of the obvious....older people are racist, so they vote for Hillary
19:18:59 * zapATIsta predicts Joe Scarboro uses the word "elitist" in a sentence only 5 more times before his head explodes.
19:19:00< amyloo> tom i heard about the mayoral election on the Times Bugle podcast. just introduced myself to it. funny.
19:19:29< zapATIsta> tmanternach: good point.
19:19:43< mordecai> tmanternach: older people also like what bill did for them in the 90s
19:19:47< amyloo> nonmyop very predictable along the demographic lines you hear about, every single person I talked to fit the profiles. every one.
19:19:51< mordecai> and fear new things
19:20:11< nonmyopicdave> Amy: Wow. Interesting.
19:20:21< tommorris> amyloo: everyone was fed up with Livingstone - his al-Qaradawi stunts and so on were pissing people off - but instead they've elected a buffoon. alas, despite commuting into the city, I'm outside the electoral zone
19:22:14< mordecai> Obama got another superdelegate today http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/5/6/183939/5447/256/510272
19:22:31< edleafe> Rev. Wright is Willie Horton Lite for this election
19:22:45< edleafe> makes white folk scared of "them"
19:23:24< zapATIsta> I was walking past cnn at school today and lingered because whoever spoke right before howard dean predicted that if obama gets both states, there will be at least 10 superdelegates going for him right away tonite.
19:23:48< maslowbeer> rt: @nprpolitics   WFYI reports 2 precincts still open in IN @publicmic  
19:23:49-!- grigs [n=grigs@75.145.71.41] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
19:23:52< zapATIsta> he said if obama gets only one he still thinks he'll get 10-12 more but might trickle in tonite and tomorrow. It sounded plausable to me.
19:24:14< tommorris> I'm a lot less scared of Jeremiah Wright than I am of John Hagee
19:24:47-!- MissM [n=MissM@cpe-024-074-178-131.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #indiananorthcarolinaprimary
19:24:48< adamrg> John Hagee is everything that is wrong with America, he's an "agent of intolerance"
19:25:17< tommorris> More to the point, he's a nutcase.
19:25:32< MissM> Rachel Maddow is on MSNBC, I'm watching it now
19:25:36< amyloo> no shit, re hagee, the endtimes stuff is truly frightening
19:25:40 * zapATIsta fwops overand with newly jigged atlantic cod the size of rhode island.
19:25:43< tmanternach> MissM: she needs her own show on there
19:25:46< amyloo> hey miss m!
19:25:49< adamrg> Time for another Maddow/Buchanan lovefest on MSNBC.
19:25:51< MissM> hey amyloo! :)
19:25:54< tmanternach> why they gave the show to David Gregory is beyond me
19:26:06< MissM> I'm such a Maddow fan! Long time listener of hers at AAR
19:26:16-!- hilarytalbot [n=chatzill@203-173-5-25.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
19:26:17< MissM> He works for nbc? 
19:26:20< MissM> hi Hil
19:26:22< tommorris> hear her occasionally on 'best of the left'
19:26:28-!- whatsup [n=chatzill@203-206-166-240.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
19:26:34< stevegio> Hey all, I'm at a conference with no TV access.  I'm guessing no states have been called yet?
19:26:42< amyloo> hi Hil! hi Hil! hi Hil! hi Hil! hi Hil! hi Hil! hi Hil! hi Hil! hi Hil! hi Hil! hi Hil! hi Hil!
19:26:42< zapATIsta> yeah. I listened to her, chuckd, janeane and a couple others for a year or more.
19:26:42< hilarytalbot> Hi
19:26:43-!- keith [n=chatzill@adsl-75-52-251-102.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
19:26:43< tmanternach> stevegio: correct
19:26:51< hilarytalbot> :)
19:26:52< tommorris> hilarytalbot: hello
19:26:52< MissM> no stevegio, I'm watching msnbc with IE on the computer
19:26:59< hilarytalbot> hey tom
19:27:02< stevegio> Any indication on how the night is going?
19:27:18< tmanternach> stevegio: Clinton will take IN by a few, Obama will take NC by a lot
19:27:21-!- keith [n=chatzill@adsl-75-52-251-102.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit]
19:27:26< MissM> hillary 57-43 w/13% reporting in IN
19:27:33< MissM> or 16 %
19:27:41< zapATIsta> david gregory has cute cheeks and a very thick wallet. 
19:27:41-!- vtbtucker [n=btucker@pool-72-95-172-166.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
19:27:56< zapATIsta> they probably picked him to try and compete with gloria vanderbilt's kid over at cnn
19:28:01< whatsup> to MissM - what are the delegate counts at those  %
19:28:09< stevegio> Too bad.  Would like to have seen an Obama Miracle tonight.
19:28:09< amyloo> i don't find him attractive at all. but i did hear he's very tall. a plus.
19:28:17< maslowbeer> hey what's the best www irc client for here for n00bs
19:28:26< zapATIsta> amyloo what the heck are you laughing at?
19:28:27< MissM> I don't know how the delegates are split in either state, but its up to the state conventions, I believe
19:28:30< maslowbeer> want to get more twitterati onboard
19:28:33< MissM> I like mirc, maslowbeer
19:28:39< tmanternach> http://www.mibbit.com/ seems good
19:28:41< mordecai> non www for mac is coloqouy maslowbeer 
19:28:51< amyloo> i use the chatzilla plugin, easy. 
19:29:03-!- tommorris changed the topic of #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary to: Indiana: 57% Clinton, 43% Obama - 16% precincts returning (cnn.com)
19:29:06< nonmyopicdave> chatzilla
19:29:15< maslowbeer> ideally something i can post a link and they can come in through www entirely
19:29:18< adamrg> nice -- the DNC's McCain attack ad is running on MSNBC here -- win!
19:29:21< tommorris> Colloquy on the Mac is sweeet - IRC is my crack cocaine
19:29:21< hilarytalbot> Chatzilla for me too
19:29:35< amyloo> zap you mean my greeting to hil? she and i have been in chat rooms for over 10 years. it's my traditional greeting.
19:29:38< zapATIsta> twitterati, hehehehe
19:29:39< whatsup> chatzilla on fx
19:29:55< tmanternach> adamrg: the ad with him talking about how good of shape were are in? i love that ad
19:29:56< zapATIsta> oh, that's hi hil. I had to look again.
19:29:59-!- maslowbeer2 [i=481496c4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-82d81c1b68d6333e] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
19:30:04< maslowbeer2> ah cool
19:30:04< zapATIsta> I thought it was hi hi hi hi hi hi 
19:30:11< MissM> MSNBC says 17% reporting still 57-43
19:30:12< zapATIsta> all my belgian friends laugh like that.
19:30:13 * tommorris notes that IRC was Twitter before Twitter was cool.
19:30:13< adamrg> tmanternach: not that one, the 100 years ad.
19:30:16< maslowbeer> tmanternach, thanks
19:30:30< MissM> sorta, tommorris, I agree :)
19:30:34< tmanternach> adamrg: I don't like that ad, seems disingenuous to me
19:30:38< tmanternach> maslowbeer: no problem
19:30:42< tmanternach> NC called for Obama!
19:30:45< amyloo> nc called for obama
19:30:46< tmanternach> must be a HUGE win
19:30:47< christophercarfi> sweet
19:30:51< zapATIsta> olberman just announced for obama in nc?
19:30:57 * tommorris has been hanging out on IRC since the mid 90s
19:30:58< whatsup> already - must be big
19:30:58< MissM> Indiana has 72 delegates, and NC 115
19:31:03< zapATIsta> tom brokaw is full of shit
19:31:03< amyloo> musta been polls just closed
19:31:13< whatsup> thanks MissM
19:31:24< adamrg> tmanternach: effective ad, the questionable part is the context -- but I'm opposed to a 50-60 year "support operation" like we're doing in Korea.
19:31:26< zapATIsta> http://www.contempl8.net/why-tom-brokaw.htm
19:31:27< MissM> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/  has results after the first clump 
19:31:38-!- maslowbeer2 [i=481496c4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-82d81c1b68d6333e] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary []
19:31:44< tmanternach> adamrg: me too. but they are twisting what he said in that ad
19:32:20< maslowbeer> mmm wtf that didn't work too well
19:32:36< zapATIsta> marco's breaking news: brokaw said "knife fight" again.
19:32:44-!- maslowbeer2 [i=481496c4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3d5e8b6bc613c70f] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
19:32:54 * zapATIsta points out that "knife fight" is code language for major racist topical stuff.
19:32:59< maslowbeer2> try this again
19:33:02< tommorris> Explanation plz?
19:33:08< adamrg> tmanternach: he had repeated earlier and has repeated this assertion since without the "no casualties" clause, while increasing the time commitment to "one thousand" "ten thousand" and "a million" years
19:33:35< zapATIsta> it points to a racist joke from the 70s about a black man showing up to a gun fight with a knife and getting his head blown up.
19:34:04< tmanternach> adamrg: I've heard the entire thing before. but the ad doesn't mention the "no casualties" part
19:34:09< tmanternach> http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/epolls/index.html#NCDEM
19:34:15< zapATIsta> I forget the whole setup, but the punch line is literally, the gun man saying "stupid _n word_, showing up to a gunfight with a knife.
19:34:18-!- maslowbeer2 [i=481496c4@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-3d5e8b6bc613c70f] has quit [Client Quit]
19:34:28< tmanternach> CNN Exit Poll for NC has Obama winning 54% to 46%, not as good as we'd though
19:34:34< tmanternach> though*
19:34:38< tmanternach> thought**
19:34:40< amyloo> but it also could be reference to the Butch Cassidy scene
19:35:00< MissM> 19% in 58-42 Hillary
19:35:07< MissM> ^ MSNBC
19:35:19< adamrg> tmanternach: agreed -- it is more inflammatory without that language, but it is pretty offensive even with the caveat
19:35:24< zapATIsta> amyloo, yes. and I think many people who use that expression don't even know or think they mean it that way, but it has a lot of shared meaning in white america.
19:35:36< zapATIsta> people like bill clinton and I'm assuming brokaw know it all too well.
19:35:41< tommorris> "Hey, Republicans, Obama aka. MOOSLEM COCAINE NIGGER is going to fuck your wife, steal your guns and force your linebacker son to have an ABORTION. Vote for Jesus' home boy JOHN MCCAIN!"
19:36:06< zapATIsta> linebacker son. lolz!
19:36:15< adamrg> tommorris++
19:36:22< tommorris> That seems a fair representation of right wing discourse over the last few weeks re. Obama.
19:36:22< maslowbeer> rt @nprpolitics   NPR projects Barack Obama wins the North Carolina
19:36:56< amyloo> my own mother said she worries he might bring in his cronies and loot the white house... sigh
19:36:59< MissM> MSBNC 20% in 58-42
19:37:26< MissM> That's too bad ,amyloo, but we're evolving :)
19:37:28< maslowbeer> tommorris, while secretly wanting to watch :)
19:37:43-!- whatsup [n=chatzill@203-206-166-240.perm.iinet.net.au] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary []
19:38:09< hilarytalbot> but you are not disowning her?
19:38:22< tommorris> hilarytalbot: :)
19:38:27< amyloo> ha! excellent point, hil. no.
19:38:40-!- edleafe [n=ed@64.39.1.11] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary ["Leaving"]
19:38:41< MissM> <g>
19:38:51< adamrg> did you reject &&|| denounce?
19:38:52< MissM> You can't pick your family... 
19:38:58< zapATIsta> yeah, I have a close friend who's heartbroken because his mother has announced she's voting hilary because she really hates bush but is afraid Obama will hire all black people and yadda yadda yadda. Um, she's 10+ years retired, and her son is a sysadmin at MIT, why is she worried about who he'll hire anyhow? 
19:39:11< amyloo> yeah, had a press conference and everything!
19:39:26< hilarytalbot> lol
19:39:50< zapATIsta> I mean realistic fear or not, how is that any reason to vote for or against someone???
19:39:51< amyloo> zap, that's interesting. same fear. what's that about.
19:40:12-!- livenotstopping [n=jessica@70.158.1.254] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
19:40:47< maslowbeer> zapATIsta, has nothing to do with job market - has to do with enslaving the white race or some horseshit
19:40:49< tommorris> Obama will just get into the White House and hire Puff Daddy. We need Hillary instead!
19:41:11< zapATIsta> something tells me it's an unspoken fear about how staggering a real deserved round of reparations might have to be if say, he used a Bushian presidential directive announcing something like "every person 1% black or more will get a free 50 dollar cingular go card..."
19:41:55< zapATIsta> If either of them hire puff daddy I'm moving to ___________ pick your favorite country
19:42:05< maslowbeer> zapATIsta, that would be cheaper than a couple days in iraq
19:42:31< maslowbeer> zapATIsta, i posit puff daddy > bush
19:42:33< tommorris> you can come to Britain and complain about Brown and Boris if you like
19:42:39< tommorris> * > Bush
19:42:41 * zapATIsta has a friend whose son \ hahahaha, maslowbeer \ punched sean puff diddy doody daddy addy whatever his name is this week.
19:43:03< jdandrea> CNN: " In the overall race, 404 pledged delegates remain to be chosen." So, put another way, they're not found?
19:43:15 * jdandrea ducks to avoid virtual shoes thrown his way.
19:43:16< adamrg> MSNBC was doing great -- but then they put Joe Scarborough on the screen again.
19:43:58-!- davewiner [n=davewine@c-24-4-205-40.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
19:44:02< tommorris> jdandrea: I did see in Dave's post that Hillary has 1337 non-superdelegates. She ought to get out at that magic number before she ends up being politically 302ed to Obama
19:44:07< hilarytalbot> sounds like an error msg
19:44:09 * christophercarfi throws virtual shoe at jdandrea
19:44:14< maslowbeer> in fact (puffy daddy/0) > bush ;)
19:44:20 * jdandrea >oof!< :)
19:44:21< davewiner> hello everybody I am returned
19:44:26< christophercarfi> hi dave
19:44:43-!- peterjhill [n=peterjhi@c-76-22-21-1.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #IndianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
19:44:47< adamrg> wb dave
19:44:48< zapATIsta> Mika Brzinzki tried to get Scarbroface to admit he wants hillary to win because he thinks generic republican can swiftboat the hell out of her.
19:44:49< jdandrea> Hey Dave.
19:44:53< amyloo> hey dave, good idea this. feel like i'm spamming twitter these ngihts
19:44:57< hilarytalbot> hi dave
19:44:58< zapATIsta> rehi mr winer. 
19:45:12< tommorris> hey dave
19:45:38< maslowbeer> davewiner, hello. you've been missing out on the great convo ;)
19:45:43< tommorris> watching hrc fail is almost curing my headache
19:45:47< tmanternach> FUCK YES! I've been waiting for this night for a long time...the pundits are finally saying that even if she wins IN, she is still done
19:45:49< jdandrea> Tell me there's an archive of this.
19:45:53< maslowbeer> i'll be posting this up to blog again tho
19:46:10< maslowbeer> jdandrea, keeping it
19:46:18< davewiner> i said it weeks ago, this is the moment
19:46:21 * jdandrea thanks maslowbeer
19:46:24< maslowbeer> jdandrea, i posted up the last penn chat. i'll be posting this one up too
19:46:25 * zapATIsta pretends to change subject to 'tommorris-watching hrc fail is almost curing my headache''
19:46:29< davewiner> tomorrow hillary thanks her supporters
19:46:29< tmanternach> tommorris: update the room topic, perhaps?
19:46:39< davewiner> thank you my supporters for a great campaign
19:46:42< davewiner> we ended on a high note
19:46:54< davewiner> god bless pennsylvania, ohio and texas
19:46:58< davewiner> we'll see you again
19:47:00< tmanternach> davewiner: We all wish!
19:47:04< tommorris> davewiner: you think? the cynic in me says that hrc will keep this rolling on and on
19:47:06< davewiner> if john mccain can run at 72 so can i!!
19:47:12< davewiner> meanwhile
19:47:19< davewiner> i'm going to get some more of that famous experience
19:47:27< davewiner> and run for governor of new york
19:47:37< davewiner> i'll have a great time
19:47:40< christophercarfi> <insert client 9 joke here>
19:47:43< davewiner> you'll love it
19:47:48-!- samharrelson [n=samharre@96.33.78.242] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
19:47:49< davewiner> see you all in 2012
19:47:50< zapATIsta> so back to puff diddly real quickly, my friend's son was in some ny bar and puffy combface was treating some woman horrible, so Dante walks up to him and says, "hey that's not how you treat a woman, that's not how you treat anyone." 
19:47:54< amyloo> i don't think so, dave. she wants this. she'll spin indiana and tie to ohio and PA (i think)
19:47:58< davewiner> i'm outta here
19:48:01< zapATIsta> puffy goes "you don't know who you're fucking with"
19:48:01< davewiner> change that
19:48:06< davewiner> i'm SO outta here
19:48:18< zapATIsta> and dante says "oh yes I do" and punches him square on the mouth.
19:48:23-!- brianeisenberg [n=brianeis@c-67-183-122-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary []
19:48:31< tommorris> zapATIsta: win!
19:48:39< tmanternach> zapATIsta: that story is awesomely relevant to the IN/NC primary results :)
19:48:45< zapATIsta> drops him to the floor and everyone cheered and one of the trade mags put his scrawny arm connecting on its front page.
19:48:49< davewiner> oh one more thing (still hillary speaking)
19:48:53< zapATIsta> tmantemach, hehehehe
19:48:55< davewiner> fuck you barack obama!!
19:49:03< zapATIsta> :)
19:49:12-!- stevegio [n=steve@209.sub-70-210-128.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:49:25-!- tommorris changed the topic of #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary to: CNN project Obama win in NC; Indiana 57% to Clinton with 26% of precincts
19:49:28< amyloo> i do sense she's VERY jealous of him and thinks of him as little upstart
19:49:31 * zapATIsta predicts Hillary launches at LEAST 3 lawsuits against Obama if she doesn't win it all.
19:49:38< tmanternach> in case anyone hasn't seen this: Barack Obama-sistible, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPLtotzqH0M
19:49:45< davewiner> okay plan b
19:49:48< davewiner> tomorrow
19:49:58< davewiner> 25 congress people get in front of the cameras
19:50:05< davewiner> they sing WE LOVE YOU OBAMA
19:50:18< davewiner> and they sing a song for Hillary
19:50:22< amyloo> that's more likely to happen, and would be even more fun.
19:50:23< davewiner> FOR SHE'S A JOLLY GOOD LOSER
19:50:29< christophercarfi> will Bob Geldof produce it?  that'd be sweet.
19:50:43< tommorris> in other words, they'll Thatcher her
19:50:44< davewiner> :-)
19:50:45< tmanternach> I love KO for taking Hillary's own words and throwing them back in her face
19:50:46-!- matthew [n=chatzill@ppp-70-236-7-236.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
19:50:46< amyloo> nc widening -- way widening
19:50:49-!- mordecai changed the topic of #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary to: IN: 26% reporting 57% hillary 43% Obama
19:50:51< peterjhill> my 4 1/2 year old just said "yes we can!"
19:51:04< zapATIsta> hahahaha
19:51:07< davewiner> amyloo why isn't our guy winning indiana?
19:51:14< davewiner> weren't you supposed to take care of that???
19:51:19< amyloo> rednecks.
19:51:28< amyloo> i tried!
19:51:30< christophercarfi> ::snort::
19:51:40< DaveM> davewiner: I missed the "still hillary speaking" and had to backup to figure out the "salutation" for BO... 
19:51:47< tommorris> amyloo: that's poetically telegrammatical
19:51:59< davewiner> amyloo, well try harder next time
19:52:01< davewiner> :-)
19:52:12< davewiner> davem, i can see where that might have been confusing
19:52:14< davewiner> :-)
19:52:25< DaveM> sadly, this is going to move into a negotiation for MI/FLA delegates and then a two three month exercise in trying to turn and and all delegates before the convention.
19:52:30< amyloo> ok.... maybe in the general
19:53:06< zapATIsta> hillary's losing because the only person who has a crush on her needs 5 forged drug prescriptions to get up in the morning.
19:53:08< matthew> (Just Joining) - I got to shake hands with Obama today in Greenwood, IN
19:53:23< adamrg> In the conference call Clinton suggested that the magic number is actually 2209 -- pretending that MI/FL were in the count.
19:53:25< tommorris> you can see the silent movie era, with the young upstart Obama campaign telegramming back to Washington: "INDIANA - WE TRIED STOP TOO MANY REDNECKS STOP HILLARY STILL BEING NUISANCE STOP"
19:53:29< DaveM> "confusing" is not the word. I stepped away and dave winer was converted to the dark side. I said "Whoa... this is news."
19:53:31-!- greg_ [n=greg@pool-72-67-167-159.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit []
19:53:33< zapATIsta> people, indiana has a LOT of racists. Hella lotta racists.
19:53:36< tmanternach> matthew: very nice! did you get to vote today?
19:53:51< davewiner> sadly obama doesn't have the racist vote
19:54:02< matthew> sure did
19:54:27< MissM> Yes, I agree. all of a sudden MI/FLA are relevant despite being told the consequences.  
19:54:31< zapATIsta> davewiner: actually when he won assembly positions in illinois he won even in towns that were almost 100% organized by the klan and john birch society
19:54:33< tommorris> I listened to right-wing talk radio for a long time over podcast. A lot of exceptionally stupid people called in from Indiana - some from 'compounds'
19:54:36< adamrg> Obama needs to find a group to cast as "them" -- conservatives and racists really like having a "them" to rally against.
19:54:43< DaveM> A racist might interject and say that Obama has the "Black racist" vote... I call that the instinct for self-preservation.
19:54:47< zapATIsta> but I don't expect countywide stuff like that to work nationally. :(
19:54:51< amyloo> tom, sounds about right
19:55:10< zapATIsta> mathew, cool. I met him in milwaukee. he seems very real. 
19:55:20< hilarytalbot> what kind of compounds are they?
19:55:33< DaveM> I have polled a few highly conservative friends and they have all stated a preference for Obama due to the war.
19:55:44< tommorris> oh, the sort with survival handbooks and guard dogs
19:55:47< adamrg> Did Pat Buchanan just talk about "high school age" voters? (MSNBC)
19:56:02< hilarytalbot> ah! of course
19:56:12< MissM> One can vote before one is 18, if one will be 18 before the actual election
19:56:36< zapATIsta> campaign breaking news just in: Obama is winning the elitist vote.
19:56:36< DaveM> As in jail communities... when fear is the prevailing ethos we all fall back to tribal groups.
19:56:43< zapATIsta> elitist.
19:56:51< zapATIsta> did we say elitist?
19:56:53 * tommorris is a proud elitist
19:57:00< maslowbeer> tommorris, lol
19:57:02< adamrg> MissM: yes, I'm aware of that... I just wasn't aware that they broke the data down in that detail -- he also referenced a group "below the high school voters"
19:57:12< MissM> ok :)
19:57:14< MissM> sorry
19:57:20< adamrg> no worries :)
19:57:23< zapATIsta> chuck todd, have you used the word elitest lately? please inform us several new nuances for the word elitism.
19:57:24< amyloo> lots of good people in IN, too, but not what you'd call his ideal surroundings
19:57:31< MissM> We'll be elitists together :)
19:57:42< adamrg> me too!
19:57:54< mordecai> here's the most interesting thing on the race card
19:57:55< mordecai> http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/3597/the_clinton_firewall/
19:58:00< mordecai> that I've seen
19:58:06< tmanternach> sounds like MSNBC is going to call IN for Clinton in a few minutes
19:58:09< zapATIsta> davem: I've heard similar.
19:58:14< manton> Anyone know the story with Lake county in IN? No results... I thought Obama was going to be strong there, is it enough to matter?
19:58:18< DaveM> John Stewart had the best reply to the elite label: "I want a President who's vastly superior to me." John is that smart.
19:58:30< amyloo> Hil, I think when you visited you only saw Crown Point country club estates plus Bloomington. Not a cross section.
19:58:37< zapATIsta> members of ivaw for the most part don't vote nationally at all, but many are rooting for obama just on the war issue. 
19:58:53< MissM> My brother used to live in crown point, in. 
19:58:54< zapATIsta> and many young vets are conservative otherwise.
19:58:57-!- mordecai changed the topic of #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary to: IN 33% reporting 57% hillary 43% Obama
19:59:00< hilarytalbot> yes, thats right. 
19:59:27< hilarytalbot> hard to get cross section view as a vistor anywhere
19:59:40-!- pjw [n=pjw@72.8.76.134] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
19:59:42< zapATIsta> gotta love stewart
19:59:44< tommorris> Americans are elitist. That's how professional sports exist. You want your NFL players to be the 'elite'. It's just note applied evenly - the 'elitists' want the 'elite' to become presidents and professors and journalists
19:59:52< tommorris> s/note/not
20:00:07< mordecai> IN 33% reporting 57% hillary 43% Obama • NC <1% Reporting 33% Hillary 66% Obama
20:00:09< maslowbeer> gotta get a t-shirt that says "proud to be a latte sipping elitist" or something
20:00:10-!- mordecai changed the topic of #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary to: IN 33% reporting 57% hillary 43% Obama • NC <1% Reporting 33% Hillary 66% Obama
20:00:13< DaveM> The Republican tactic is to drive up *fear* then leverage tribal messages to make a coalition... it surpasses ideology and uses base psychological motivations.
20:00:14< amyloo> right. unless you're de Touqeville. where's he when we need him
20:00:15< MissM> tommorris and the majority wanna drink a beer and slap the back of the pres, I fear
20:00:36-!- Curtis [n=chatzill@c-75-71-208-102.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
20:00:38< hilarytalbot> lol. and agenda was entirely different for my visit
20:00:49< zapATIsta> Hillary came to Milwaukee tons of times in a row stumping for her husband. She's perhaps THE most fraudulent personality I've ever met in my life. :(
20:00:52-!- ryan_i [n=ryan@cpe-069-134-211-094.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
20:01:16< manton> zapATIsta: Is there any correlation between those two sentences of yours?
20:01:17< peterjhill> david axelrod will be on cnn.com/live in 15 minutes
20:01:27< zapATIsta> she's one of those poeple who are fully aware of whether cameras are rolling or not and will immediately bounce onto message the minute one starts recording.
20:01:43< amyloo> he needs to make a big deal of the NC blowout. he hasn't emphasized those huge wins enough. good reminder of them.
20:01:47< tommorris> You think academia and politics is elitist, but you happily watch the live video feed of Paris Hilton, a member of the celebrity elite.
20:01:47< zapATIsta> hillary and gotta? no correlation
20:01:51< DaveM> Sprots has a rational system of scoring... if sports was decided by fans voting it would approximate politics and we'd see the same "games"
20:01:53< manton> Yawn. Let's focus on the results and stop tearing people down, please.
20:02:05< MissM> Modesty never gets you very far.  
20:02:06< zapATIsta> oh you mean stumping and fraudulent.
20:02:13 * christophercarfi is a big sprots fan :-)
20:02:14< manton> amyloo: What blowout? I don't see it. Where are you looking?
20:02:20< DaveM> Where is Lakoff? I need to know what to think of all this. Lakoff soothes me.
20:02:20< hilarytalbot> Howard our ex-PM was rabidly anti elitist
20:02:28< MissM> The salary cap is too low for prez. 
20:02:42< amyloo> i think NC numbers indicate a blowout regardless of your preferences
20:02:45 * zapATIsta doesn't mean to tear someone down, but cannot hold back from telling the truth even if it's not very tactful. sorry.
20:02:46< maslowbeer> yeah is lakoff on twitter?
20:02:47< tommorris> There is an elite of anti-elitists.
20:02:58< maslowbeer> tommorris, lol
20:02:59< manton> amyloo: But that's 0% reporting...
20:03:07-!- nonmyopicdave [n=chatzill@75-164-155-106.ptld.qwest.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.82 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]"]
20:03:12< maslowbeer> like i said, w is the elite of stupidity
20:03:14< DaveM> We need winer to interview Lakoff again... I suspect.
20:03:23< MissM> What a great interview!
20:03:27< DaveM> He hinted one was pending.
20:03:32< amyloo> manton, the nets called it. that means they've read teh exit polls.
20:03:41< grigs> yeah, another lakoff interview!
20:03:42< adamrg> Donna Brazille just referred to the Dems as "mashed potatoes and gravy and we," she gestures towards Jamal Simmons, "are the gravy"
20:03:42< maslowbeer> too bad they shutdown rockridge
20:03:49< amyloo> they called it instantly. that means something
20:03:52< manton> amyloo: I thought exits showed 10% ish.
20:03:55< manton> I guess we'll see.
20:04:00< grigs> more on frames and what to do with rockridge gone
20:04:02< zapATIsta> maslow: lol
20:04:12< DaveM> Yes. Lakoff really helps indicate why Obama was resonating... and I think Obama is really listening to the advice. Staying on a high-road message.
20:04:16< amyloo> fancy a wager, manton? 
20:04:30 * maslowbeer saw lakoff when we came to houston
20:04:32< grigs> how do progressives continue the rockridge work 
20:04:34< manton> amyloo: Haha. No.
20:04:43< manton> amyloo: I suspected a possible Obama sweep tonight. I won't be against him.
20:04:46< peterjhill> adamrg Donna Brazille is hot!
20:04:49< amyloo> too bad Lakoff's think tank sunk. had a funny feeling about that announcemnt
20:04:49< manton> But I think "blowout" is too strong a word.
20:04:55 * manton goes off to read exit polls...
20:05:08< manton> Er, "bet" against, I meant.
20:05:32< maslowbeer> i emailed rockridge asking what happened - i suspect they didn't have expert fund raising people
20:05:46< maslowbeer> they replied and acknowledged that could have been the case
20:05:59< zapATIsta> woah, you know who's NOT hot?
20:06:08< DaveM> "Lakoff's think tank" sunk... maybe Obama will use the funda-raising network to drive a new type of think tank based upon framing/linguistics
20:06:18< zapATIsta> chris journalist, karl rove and brit plume
20:06:28< hilarytalbot> my twitter page has acquired japanese buttons..
20:06:42< zapATIsta> sorry, just watched a few milliseconds of fair and balanced stuff.
20:06:57< maslowbeer> lakoff's main call was to create as many progressive think tanks, blogs, etc., as possible to start reframing/reclaiming the debate ourselves
20:06:58< amyloo> kos has something like the same kind of effort. keep meaning to study it. it's more applied. which is I think what Lakoff might have been shying away from.
20:07:07< grigs> Obama "bruised" playing basketball today http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/05/obama_bruised_in_election_day.html
20:07:13< DaveM> Link Obama's network to Lakoff's "elite" think tank and you have a serious engine for changing the conversation.
20:07:24< zapATIsta> chris wallace almost lies more than tom brokaw
20:08:11-!- mordecai changed the topic of #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary to: IN 38% reporting 56% hillary 44% Obama • NC <1% Reporting 30% Hillary 69% Obama
20:08:24< zapATIsta> cnn's saying 65 33. I'd call that close to a blowout
20:08:38< mordecai> it wont be
20:08:58< mordecai> if hilarys team was spinning that they are gonna lose tonight by 15% then they are gonna lose by like 9 or something
20:09:06< tommorris> the anti-meme for the 'elitism' vipers is that those spreading it think that it's a choice between elitism and being inclusive, when in fact it's a choice between elitism and populism. populism gave us George W. Bush, elitism gave us Thomas Jefferson.
20:09:23< maslowbeer> tommorris, well said
20:09:28< MissM> nice, tommorris
20:09:34< zapATIsta> tommorris, good point.
20:09:34< DaveM> We need to take back the word "elite" just as we need to re-frame liberal... elites are just people who work very hard and can show success for the effort... anyone would want their kid to have a shot at proving themselves to be "elite"... "My kids an honor student", etc. The honor makes them elite in their group.
20:09:42< adamrg> tommorris++
20:09:42-!- mordecai changed the topic of #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary to: IN 38% reporting 56% hillary 44% Obama • NC 4% Reporting 34% Hillary 64% Obama
20:10:06< zapATIsta> we could start by pwning the word 733t, then we can hack our way toward elite. 
20:10:07< zapATIsta> :)
20:10:14< mordecai> good luck getting that reframed
20:10:34< maslowbeer> reframing liberal is easy - just show someone a dictionary
20:10:52< maslowbeer> challenge them they don't want to strive to be that
20:11:12-!- mordecai changed the topic of #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary to: IN 38% reporting 56% hillary 44% Obama • NC 5% Reporting 34% Hillary 65% Obama
20:11:34< maslowbeer> after all democracy is a liberal ideal
20:11:51< ryan_i> Yet another reason I didn't vote for Hillary today: http://xrl.us/bj8oi
20:11:53< zapATIsta> especially because the logical end result of conservatives forcing the "elite" issue all the way was seen playing out in Pol Pot's killing fields. Anyone caught using a pen or pencil, slide rule or actually reading a book was taken out of their homes in broud daylingght and executed in front of people.
20:11:58< maslowbeer> freedom is a liberal ideal
20:11:59< DaveM> There is the legacy form of "elite" based upon family connections and wealth... that's NOT the elite I speak of... that's GWB. "Born on third base and thinks he hit a triple".
20:12:17< mordecai> elite is lost for the next 3 decades
20:12:19< christophercarfi> daveM: always loved that analogy
20:12:22< mordecai> we won't get it back
20:12:31 * tommorris is an elitist liberal who likes to rejuvenate linguistic archaisms with gay abandon
20:12:52< maslowbeer> DaveM, great metaphor
20:12:57< adamrg> Chris Matthews is back on the disingenuous nature of Clinton's devolution into blue collar panderer. His guest references youtube coffee machine incident. :)
20:13:21< maslowbeer> analog rather
20:13:23< zapATIsta> adamrg, nice.
20:13:27 * ryan_i is a elitist and doesn't wallow in self-pity. ;)
20:13:48< tommorris> I read a superb book by a Conservative politician - 'The New Elites' by George Walden
20:14:03< DaveM> There's an elite based upon the application of hard work and commitment to goals. Obama IS that type of elite individual. Parents call them: roll models. They want their kids to aspire to BE like that person. Go t college and pursue a higher degree and take on some debt with the expectation that they will be successful enough to retire the debt with hard work.
20:14:19< zapATIsta> Hillary has had a hard time portraying herself as a "regular girl" her entire life.
20:14:45< amyloo> i gotta give matthews some credit last few days. he did say tv networks "have to" make the race seem closer than it is. (many things about him make me mad, though)
20:14:47< MissM> I don't think she's ever settled for "regular."  She's always excelled.
20:14:50< adamrg> zapATIsta: what bothers me is that she isn't stupid, or ordinary, but she's aspiring to it because she things it makes her more worthy
20:15:13< MissM> Yeah, the economist comment this weekend, irked me greatly.
20:15:14-!- greg_ [n=greg@cpe-76-175-193-137.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
20:15:21< zapATIsta> she would be much better off admitting publickly that she's old money, incredibly rich, very white and quite condescending but she really does give a shit and wants to do good things in the world. People would respect her honesty a whole lot more. Look at warren buffet
20:15:33< jdandrea> CNN TV: Elextion Express? _Elextion_?!?
20:15:47< christophercarfi> elextion? wtf is that?
20:15:51< ryan_i> I don't think Clinton is old money at all. She's new money. 
20:15:57< zapATIsta> adamrg. true
20:16:01< amyloo> right zap time for a reality check. they're BOTH ivy league millionaire lawyers for god's sake!
20:16:08< adamrg> christophercarfi: x -> c is one key off, typo time
20:16:29< jdandrea> Must be one of those fancy on-purpose misspellings.
20:16:34< amyloo> right, not old money, but more privileged than obama
20:16:37< adamrg> amyloo: Obama's story is more inspiring, because he didn't serve on the board of WALMART
20:16:43< christophercarfi> what do you expect from CMN?
20:16:49< zapATIsta> yeah.
20:17:03< jdandrea> David Axelrod and Robert Gibbs on CNN.com Live now ...
20:17:45 * zapATIsta takes back the old money comment for now. thinks that the rodhams are older than plain old upper middle class money, but by far less truly old money than the bushes and dulleses.
20:17:46< amyloo> i like claire mccaskill
20:17:47< DaveM> There is a grasping, clawing form of success that will do anything to get ahead... It's got that "Gatsby" problem of never truly being happy with the success because of the actions taken to get there. They never really get there and make the regrets go away and enjoy the achievement.
20:18:18< maslowbeer> hell i heard even MSM anchors say that HRC calling obama out of touch was the pot/kettle
20:18:27< jdandrea> pot/kettle. heh.
20:18:37< DaveM> Obama has a core of wanting to do something with his life... something his children will respect in the end. 
20:18:47< jdandrea> DaveM: Hear hear.
20:18:58< amyloo> davem agree, it's a scarcity thing. "gotta get me mine" and "if you win i lose" sort of thing. hate that
20:19:03< zapATIsta> very true.
20:19:06< adamrg> DaveM: that's what I respect about him.  His history has been about *people* and what can benefit them.
20:19:33< DaveM> I could imagine him listening to Revenredn Wright and thinking... There a better way to get us all where we would like to be... equal and without anger.
20:20:03< zapATIsta> woah, indiana is VERY divided in picking obama and clinton on race.
20:20:16< amyloo> nora says gender gap not as pronounced in IN as it has been
20:20:34< zapATIsta> msnbc just said obama got the black vote 92 -8 and hillary got the white vote something like 70-30.
20:20:58< MissM> amyloo's Mom is represented there, looks like
20:21:09< MissM> My Mom said she wasn'
20:21:17< MissM> My Mom said she wasn't gonna vote in KY's primary
20:21:24< amyloo> right, missm! she's definitely true to type.
20:21:47< tommorris> Just dug out my copy of 'The New Elites' and it has a brilliant quote from the Sipmsons: "When Bart Simpson, Homer's rapscallion son, asks what has happened to [Otto the bus driver], the reply comes: 'Forget Otto. That's one palindrome you wont' have to worry about any more.' The gag is gone in a flash - the pace is fast - and the show reverts to inspired slapstick... The makers of The Simpsons include graduates of 
20:22:19< DaveM> Capitalism at it's worst is a "jungle mentality" that forces a Darwinian ethic onto the antagonists... eat or be eaten. HRC is a carnivore and proud if it. Obama eschews the capitalistic version of success and seeks a communal benefit thorugh effective use of opportunity and resources.
20:23:11< GabeW> gah
20:23:18< GabeW> this is like the 4x overtime sharks playoff game
20:23:24< GabeW> only I really care who wins
20:24:06< maslowbeer> DaveM, even more than that - the only way capitalism can be sustained is if the commonwealth benefits
20:24:07< zapATIsta> gabe, hehehe
20:24:09< amyloo> davem, yes, naturally so maybe, but also believes she must appear tougher even than she is, I think? 
20:24:18< DaveM> When I try to spin the Reverend Wright connection I always start with: he's an incredibly tolerant man... he's hoping we have similar qualities... tolerating differences and understanding anger based upon hard lives.
20:24:33< amyloo> she proved she was tough enough early on, and I think didn't realize she already got there.
20:24:47< maslowbeer> under the neocon version of capitalism, eventually you run out of fools
20:24:47< zapATIsta> capitalism needs checks held on it constantly and it needs to be kept from attacking sustainable agriculture if it is to succeed anywhere.
20:24:51< christophercarfi> ...except when it's advantageous to cry to get the sympathy vote
20:25:11< DaveM> Yes. Markets without rules to protect all stakeholder devlove to benefit the crafty and punish the innocent.
20:25:27< amyloo> right ccarfi, whatever it takes, whatever is polling well
20:25:54< zapATIsta> DaveM: nice try. unfortunately there are several farrakhan and william ayers and assorted other triangular logics thrown at reverand wright like darts.
20:26:06< amyloo> but i still think the new hampshire "moment" was mostly genuine
20:26:35< maslowbeer> looks like lead is diminishing in IN
20:26:44< zapATIsta> I have a couple good triads I'm trying to retort with by the way.
20:26:44< amyloo> nc 11% in
20:26:45< maslowbeer> now 10 basis points with 49% reporting
20:27:03< amyloo> 63-35, can that be right? 
20:27:04< zapATIsta> 1) colbert's truth having a liberal bias.
20:27:06< DaveM> HRC shows a toughness that reminds me of GWB... a obtuseness to others that is expected to be respected. Every tough action makes one more enemy and approval ratings tank. 
20:27:28< zapATIsta> and 2) bias having a rightwing bent.
20:27:43< zapATIsta> as I said I'm still trying to work those. hehehehe
20:28:13< maslowbeer> zapATIsta, sounds interesting. would like to hear your conclusions
20:28:33< amyloo> davem and absolutely wrong for relations in the world, that thug talk. 
20:28:34< christophercarfi> CNN officially calls NC for Obama, showing 63-35 with 11% reporting
20:28:50-!- dje_ [n=darrined@S0106001b63f3cdd5.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
20:28:52< DaveM> Yes. Rev Wright -> Farrakhan -> Hamas connections ONLY WORK when *fear* allows the brain to use a paranoid set of rationality... otherwise, you think more skeptically and consider the source.
20:28:54< adamrg> zapATIsta: Reality has a clear left-wing bias.
20:29:02< amyloo> where's manton? that's a legit blowout!
20:29:15< zapATIsta> ah yeah, that's right. thanks.
20:29:28-!- Lixoarte [n=lixoarte@dsl081-229-190.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
20:29:58< maslowbeer> liberals have a liberal (dictionary def) bias. idiots have an idiot bias. :)
20:30:14< DaveM> Imagine someone living in fear in the rest of the world hearing HRC mention obliterating Iran... it's deja vu all over again... Amerika organizing for more war.
20:30:27< christophercarfi> ccarfi prediction:  IN gap will close ... right now, showing HRC leading 55-45, but the far northwest counties (near chicago) not yet reporting.
20:30:29< maslowbeer> dis heer 'muirka!!
20:30:34< zapATIsta> davem: not to mention that with both farrakhan, and bill ayers, there seem to be a bunch of givens accepted that don't even seem factually based.
20:30:43< zapATIsta> ie: farrakhan is a complete antisemite.
20:30:48< zapATIsta> ie: bill ayers is a terrorist.
20:30:57< GabeW> christophercarfi: yah, it will close
20:30:58< adamrg> DaveM: God save us. -- yes, a liberal mentioned God... take that Chuck Hagee
20:31:02-!- jonathanwallace [n=robotpok@cmcust4uc-117.250.newnanutilities.org] has joined #indiananorthcarolinaprimary
20:31:05< miguel> davem, is that Linux david miller?
20:31:11< zapATIsta> ie: farrakhan and ayers are from chicago area
20:31:19< amyloo> 60s guys, they get a pass in my book of crimes
20:31:19< GabeW> the question I have is - by what margin will she have to win to have any credible case for saying she has any momentum
20:31:21< zapATIsta> ie: obama and wright are from chicago.
20:31:40 * christophercarfi notes he's from chicago as well
20:31:48 * Lixoarte also from chicago
20:31:51< DaveM> Facts don't really matter in a paranoid brain... it's the connections that lead the mind to wonder it danger is imminent. Rove knows these PsyOps tactics. 9/11 put us all there.
20:32:03< MissM> I don't understand why a man's pastor is having this supposed effect on his policies.  Every darn one of them. 
20:32:06< amyloo> i live here now, but not from here
20:32:10< zapATIsta> Therefore: I've proven 100% that barak hussein, hussein, did I say hussein? oh yeah, hussein, obama is an antisemitic terrorist.
20:32:39< Lixoarte> ...also living here now :)
20:32:59< adamrg> 54/46 in IN now according to MSNBC
20:33:08< zapATIsta> amyloo: agree to 60s comment. :)
20:33:15< GabeW> if she wins by under 5, I say its a loss... 
20:33:19< christophercarfi> bingo
20:33:23< maslowbeer> and clearly a pinko Leninist (oh wait, that's too "elite" sounding) commie traitor! he's no 'meriken!!
20:33:34 * zapATIsta drove through chicago, I must be like worse than the late arafat or something.
20:33:48 * tommorris thinks American politics would be a lot more sensible if God were left completely out of it. If God wishes to endorse a candidate, he will no doubt found a more direct way to do so.
20:34:03< MissM> and not via videotape :)
20:34:04< Lixoarte> agreed
20:34:11< tommorris> The "Faith and Compassion" forum on CNN was the biggest farce I've ever seen.
20:34:21-!- samharrelson [n=samharre@96.33.78.242] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary []
20:34:24< zapATIsta> hehehehe
20:34:33< amyloo> tom, plus it wsa really boring!
20:34:41-!- matthew [n=chatzill@ppp-70-236-7-236.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.82 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]"]
20:34:49< GabeW> does clinton concede tonight if she doesn't win indiana? 
20:34:56< MissM> no
20:34:59< adamrg> no...
20:34:59< GabeW> hahaha
20:35:00< zapATIsta> doubt it.
20:35:02< GabeW> of course not
20:35:15< GabeW> a guy can dream, can't he? 
20:35:15< zapATIsta> if she wins indiana by less than 4 percent, she sues.
20:35:18< ryan_i> she'll win Indiana
20:35:22< maslowbeer> HRC will still be on the campaign trail 2 years into Obama's presidency trying to win ;)
20:35:22< tommorris> Seriously, "have you ever felt the Holy Spirit?" Fuck that. How about "what are you going to do about climate change?" "how are you going to solve healthcare?", "how are you going to resolve the diplomatic situation with the Islamic world?". No, instead "have you ever felt the Holy Spirit?". What a joke.
20:35:28< adamrg> I'm of the Jon Stewart school of thought on this -- she'll still be running in November.
20:35:32< amyloo> but if in is close the supers should emerge from woodwork?
20:35:33< MissM> I think she'll pull MI out of her hat, or carry it till august
20:35:35< zapATIsta> hahahha. maslowbeer, now that's funny
20:35:40< grigs> wrt the idea of supers giving the nomination to Hillary, i've always that that was a remote possibility for a host of reasons
20:35:42< DaveM> HRC will concede when her appeal to the Supreme Court is denied (twice).
20:35:42< MissM> amyloo, we can only HOPE!
20:35:57< GabeW> or when she bursts into flame 
20:36:00< MissM> wow, that's sinking low, DaveM
20:36:09< amyloo> i'm sying she takes it by 3
20:36:15< GabeW> amyloo: that sounds right
20:36:15< grigs> but yesterday someone pointed out that the dem convention is the same time as the anniversary of the I have a Dream Speech
20:36:21< hilarytalbot> lol tom
20:36:28< GabeW> grigs: YA THINK THATS A COINCIDENCE?
20:36:37< zapATIsta> maybe if she has to concede she can be Bob Barr (atlanta) 's vp candidate in the conservative libertarian ticket.
20:36:38< grigs> seems like that media narrative would be hard for the dems to swllow
20:36:38< adamrg> Her argument to the SC will be: You appointed George last time, it's my turn NOW! *footstomp*
20:36:46< DaveM> Don't forget... she's a lawyer... in Arkansas.
20:36:58< adamrg> DaveM: didn't pass the bar in NY :P
20:37:18< zapATIsta> daveM, dam. imagine if rehnquist were still in the supreme court?
20:37:46< DaveM> BREAKING: The Supreme Court might *NOT* reject her claim. They picked GWB... why not HRC?
20:37:54-!- Tim_B [n=chatzill@f055064133.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]"]
20:37:54< davewiner> http://images.scripting.com/archiveScriptingCom/2008/05/06/wickedwitch.jpg
20:38:08< zapATIsta> "mr rehnquist, this is hillary. I know you'll never forgive me my relationships with al and tipper gore, but could you find it in your heart to give me the democrat nominate instead of that um, that tall black man? please, pretty please?"
20:38:32< adamrg> zapATIsta: hahaha
20:38:35< grigs> GabeW: probably not a coincidence. just hard to imagine politicians (super-delegates) in the dem party choosing that day to take away the nomination. 
20:38:39< zapATIsta> :)
20:38:43< DaveM> She'd make it a test case for reversing affirmative action.
20:38:48< christophercarfi> "Indiana is meltiiiiiiiiiiiing..."
20:39:01< tommorris> I approve of Al Gore, but I cannot approve of his wife. The Washington Wives. Urgh.
20:39:18< christophercarfi> tommorris four letters: PMRC
20:39:20< christophercarfi> ack
20:39:26< DaveM> The court wants to reverse all the gains of the "Great Society" anyway.
20:39:39< adamrg> christophercarfi: quick! throw some more water on IN! I hear that racists melt if you wash the red off their necks.
20:39:48< christophercarfi> heh
20:39:54< tommorris> if HRC were to get the nomination, who would she have for VP?
20:39:55< amyloo> dave are you a socialist? nothing against the tribe myself, just wondering
20:40:10-!- stevegio [n=steve@196.sub-70-210-166.myvzw.com] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
20:40:20 * zapATIsta sees PMRC and shivers.
20:40:39< zapATIsta> adamrg: lol
20:40:51< GabeW> funny thing is
20:41:02< hilarytalbot> I doubt Gore is interested in the nomination - too much to do to be tied to everyday issues of being president
20:41:06< MissM> It won't be lieberman will it? 
20:41:06< GabeW> looks almost certain that obama will increase the delegate lead tonight
20:41:09< GabeW> like it mattters
20:41:10< amyloo> in fact when i take those political quizzes i end up in that quadrant
20:41:13< DaveM> "Obama is only where he is because he's black". G. Ferraro. It's NOT fair. HRC should seek a legal action to level the playing field... or tilt it significantly towards the right wing of the table.
20:41:18 * christophercarfi admits he once created a streaming music channel called "The PMRC Channel" that pretty much only played Limp Bizkit tunes
20:41:25< GabeW> rotfl christophercarfi 
20:41:50< GabeW> that, and NWA
20:41:59< tommorris> Perhaps Hillary should level the playing field by donning blackface and doing the Hillary Clinton minstrel show. It'd only be marginally more ridiculous than her current campaign is.
20:42:05< zapATIsta> missM I would not be at all surprised if HRC and lieberman have already talked a bit.
20:42:10< DaveM> If Al Gore is awarded the Presidency like the Nobel Prize or the Oscar... he would likely do the job.
20:42:21< amyloo> beginning to see steve gillmor's argument about Hillary as running mate. 
20:42:24< tommorris> Obama/Gore?
20:42:24< GabeW> i think clinton/lieberman would define a new level of FAIL
20:42:50< amyloo> might be the very best thing for coattails and have a majority to end the war...
20:42:53< MissM> Hillary won't take "another" running mate position, imo.
20:42:56< zapATIsta> amyloo: me too, but I'm just as anti socialism and anti communism as I am anticapitalism as they are each defined.
20:43:18-!- jmic [n=jmic@dsl081-229-190.chi1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
20:43:25< DaveM> HRC doens't do comedy (Black face)... she does soap opera... Desparate housewives... or Grey Moral Anatomy...
20:43:37-!- IvoryTiger_PHX [n=IvoryTig@VDSL-151-118-179-208.DNVR.QWEST.NET] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
20:43:53< hilarytalbot> Perhaps, DaveM, as a duty, but I suspect he would prefer to be a freer agent for climate change reduction
20:44:07-!- vtbtucker [n=btucker@pool-72-95-172-166.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has quit []
20:44:13< zapATIsta> GabeW - soreloserperson?
20:44:44< GabeW> something
20:45:02< amyloo> axelrod reminding us hillary said NC mgiht be a gamechanger
20:45:12< GabeW> HAH
20:45:14< zapATIsta> I think indiana's goign to stay "too close to call" for quite some time.
20:45:41< zapATIsta> indiana's a lot like wisconsin with very liberal and very conservative regions all dotted amongst each other.
20:46:04< zapATIsta> they tend to count milwaukee last which is very black and very liberal.
20:46:24< christophercarfi> GabeW (best NWA cover ever: http://tinyurl.com/yy7zw5 )
20:46:59< zapATIsta> I've seen counts like this in wisc break out at like 11pm out of nowhere, or go from 6040 to a near tie at like 11pm all of a sudden because of mke.
20:47:24< amyloo> be back later. gonna check in with the Twitter gang. this is fun/ thanks
20:47:46< MissM> cya amyloo
20:47:46< DaveM> "Clinton in Exile" comes out today and connects some dots from Bill to his multi$million dollar buddy Ron Burkle... has HRC really been vetted?
20:48:02< hilarytalbot> bye amy
20:48:33< zapATIsta> wow. I haven't read stuff at scripting news in a while.
20:48:43< DaveM> hillarytalbot: can you imagine a politician trying to change the effects of "hot air" in the golden years?
20:48:50< MissM> You should zapATIsta
20:49:08< zapATIsta> daver, are you still doing morning coffee notes every once in a while?
20:49:31< zapATIsta> there was a time you were doing a bunch per week and I enjoyed it a lot. I imagine it was a ton of work though.
20:49:33< hilarytalbot> not sure what you mean, DaveM?
20:49:47< MissM> davewiner does the morning coffee notes.
20:50:00< DaveM> Dave Winer *hinted* on a potential Lakoff interview (Coffee Notes) ... I'm sure he just needs to nail down George to a time.
20:50:08< zapATIsta> :)
20:50:46< zapATIsta> say, who's got twitters that I ought to start following? I imaging that's not too much of a shameless plug in here, eh?
20:50:58< zapATIsta> seeing how most of us got here in the first place. :)
20:51:01< DaveM> The Lakoff interviews are really helpful at understanding how Obama did so well and changed the nature of the game. 
20:51:09< zapATIsta> really?
20:51:14< christophercarfi> unplugging for now.  see y'all later...
20:51:19< adamrg> zapATIsta: what's yours?
20:51:34< zapATIsta> http://www.twitter.com/atizine
20:52:00-!- christophercarfi [n=chatzill@64-71-7-82.static.wiline.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]"]
20:52:40< DaveM> I'd expect Obama to add 5-10 pledged delegates to his total at the end of the day... HRC will be spinning the he can't win "white people" states meme to stay alive.
20:53:03< DaveM> CYA
20:53:05< zapATIsta> http://www.borthwick.com/weblog/2008/05/06/future-of-news/   <----- wow
20:53:25< tommorris> Yes, and Clinton is winning the "white" states because all the Rush Limbaugh voters are coming out to vote. Way to go!
20:53:25< zapATIsta> is that related to the one in southern illinois one that people felt in atlanta? about a week and a half ago I think.
20:53:53< zapATIsta> I think limbaugh's crush is similar to joe scarboro's 19th century logic.
20:54:09< zapATIsta> help hillary win, then she'll lose in a landslide to mccain 
20:54:23< zapATIsta> must, stop, obama, momentum
20:55:07-!- grigs [n=grigs@75.145.71.41] has quit []
20:55:27< zapATIsta> FLASH: 1nov08. Indiana still too early to call.
20:55:44-!- rmccoy [n=chatzill@cpe-075-181-063-114.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
20:55:50< MissM>  65% IN 53/47 
20:55:52-!- J [n=wyth@va-71-53-203-237.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
20:56:29< GabeW> 6 points!
20:56:43< MissM> closer/faster
20:56:52< GabeW> it went from a 10 pt margin with 50% reporting to a 6% margin with 67% reporting
20:56:59< zapATIsta> yeah. it's swinging toward a tie I think.
20:57:03< GabeW> yah
20:57:05-!- SeanO [n=SeanO@c-98-210-125-249.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
20:57:07< DaveM> Yes. If HRC was in the lead... Rush would ask the ditto heads to vote for Obama... to create Chaos in the democratic party. He doesn't neet to try... the Party has Chaos in it's DNA.
20:57:14< GabeW> if you straight line that trend, actually its a narrow obama victory
20:57:24< MissM> aka 'herding cats'
20:57:28< zapATIsta> gabew, nice.
20:57:35< GabeW> but 
20:57:41< adamrg> Faux News has Clinton/Obama in IN at 53/47 now
20:57:44< GabeW> a tie is an obama victory
20:57:46< tommorris> as Steve Gillmor says, the Republican party has torn itself to shreds and is now doing the same to the democratic party
20:57:50< zapATIsta> daveM good point. that's a popular CIA tactic too btw.
20:57:56-!- hardaway [n=hardaway@ip72-208-151-120.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
20:58:21< zapATIsta> keep switching to EACH underdog to keep chaos as strong as possible. always seeing conflict, and then the rich gut the treasury while no one's looking.
20:58:30-!- emasters [n=Elmer@c-24-99-206-177.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary []
20:58:49< DaveM> Yes. The CIA knows how to prevent groups from getting anything accomplished.
20:59:04< zapATIsta> woops, sorry for that majorly non-linear analysis, but I'll stick by my words. :0
20:59:09< zapATIsta> yes.
20:59:10< peterjhill> using slates calculator, even including fl and mi, hillary needs over 70% of remaining delegates
20:59:38< zapATIsta> I think the only way hillary can become president is if Bush in fact does cancel november.
20:59:39< adamrg> Karl Rove is running the math of FN right now
20:59:39< peterjhill> http://www.slate.com/id/2185278/
20:59:51< adamrg> I hate Karl Rove, but he really knows the numbers.
21:00:05< DaveM> But, she's making the case for MI and FLA delegates to be hers based upon the votes she got. Obama didn't get a single vote in Michigan... silly Obama. 
21:00:13< zapATIsta> karl kkkrove scares me.
21:00:24< zapATIsta> he reminds me too much of the mr fixit guy in wag the dog.
21:00:47< zapATIsta> was that dustin hoffman? or the other guy.
21:01:17< adamrg> No... Hoffman ends up dead at the end.
21:01:18< MissM> later y'all, have fun. May Obama dominate in IN! 
21:01:27< adamrg> later!
21:01:31< zapATIsta> gnite missM
21:01:36-!- MissM [n=MissM@cpe-024-074-178-131.carolina.res.rr.com] has left #indiananorthcarolinaprimary []
21:02:01< zapATIsta> adamrg, didja follow me? I'll lookyou up and follow you back. :)
21:02:18< DaveM> The powers that be would like to help McCain get 'er done. That's where the real outrage will hit most of us. Like in 2000 amd 2004. Deju Vu all over again. The Supreme Court is getting lined up... or maybe Martial Law is required to maintina HomeLand Security: Code Red.
21:03:14< zapATIsta> there goes brit hume bringing up bill ayers again
21:03:35< peterjhill> giver her 80% of mi delegates (even though she only won by 55%) and shed need to win remaining states over 62%
21:04:04-!- bruc3 [n=bruc3@adsl-76-239-46-119.dsl.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
21:06:02< tmanternach> Did anyone see Donna Brazil on CNN about 15-20 minutes ago? She was getting pissed!
21:07:19< miguel> I dont really see many Hillary supporters online
21:07:22< adamrg> zapATIsta: gotcha on twitter
21:07:33< miguel> Are the internets Obamistas, like they used to be RonPaulistas in December?
21:07:39< zapATIsta> no, I'm watching ed  morrow's ghost interview andrea mitchell
21:07:44-!- bruc3 [n=bruc3@adsl-76-239-46-119.dsl.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary ["Konversation terminated!"]
21:07:51-!- bruc3 [n=bruc3@adsl-76-239-46-119.dsl.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
21:08:07< zapATIsta> adamrg,I haven't gotten a notice that you're following me, but I followed you and saw on there that your are. I'll get a useless email soon. :)
21:08:11-!- bruc3 [n=bruc3@adsl-76-239-46-119.dsl.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary ["Konversation terminated!"]
21:08:21< davewiner__> why was donna brazile getting pissed???
21:08:27< zapATIsta> history teacher, eh?
21:08:43< adamrg> yup
21:08:47< zapATIsta> I'm 42 and still trying to get my bachelors. hehehehe
21:09:15< tmanternach> davewiner__: the republican strategist was saying "Will obama bring people like Bill Ayers and Rev. Wright into the white house?"
21:09:20< zapATIsta> you liked ironman?
21:09:44< tmanternach> then Paul Begala kept saying "my party", and she got pretty mad..."it's not your party, it's OUR party"
21:09:56< adamrg> zapATIsta: I felt like it was quite good -- soundtrack was a bit iffy, but yeah, otherwise I thought it was well constructed.
21:10:01-!- brucelerner [n=bruc3@adsl-76-239-46-119.dsl.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
21:10:01< zapATIsta> chuck todd, nice diagonal. looks like you just speared alaska right in the ass.
21:10:01< jsantel_> WTF! do you have the name of the Rep mouthpiece?
21:10:02-!- greg_ [n=greg@cpe-76-175-193-137.socal.res.rr.com] has quit []
21:10:09-!- hardaway [n=hardaway@ip72-208-151-120.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit ["The computer fell asleep"]
21:10:11< davewiner__> hah
21:10:14< tmanternach> jsantel_: alex something....he's hispanic
21:10:26< davewiner__> hillary's supporters are pretty strange characters
21:10:36< davewiner__> kind of like the evil agents of Bill in Kill Bill
21:10:38< jsantel_> thx! man.. they give anyone a mike...
21:10:40< miguel> Hey Dave
21:10:52< adamrg> tmanternach: Right on.  Donna Brazille is the part of the democratic party that I want to be aligned with -- she's classy, smart and understands the benefits (and challenges) of the Big Tent.
21:10:53< miguel> Loved both your Wright pieces on scripting.com
21:11:00< davewiner__> obama is like the uma thurman character
21:11:05< davewiner__> miguel thanks!
21:11:20< davewiner__> reverend chickens-come-home-to-roost
21:11:31< davewiner__> here comes obama!
21:11:39< zapATIsta> hahahaha.
21:12:05< zapATIsta> "indiana changing from too early to call to too close to call.'" -- Keith Olberperson
21:12:39< tmanternach> adamrg: I agree. She is a very smart lady. Cambell Brown said "you have been uncommitted in the past, but you sound very pro-obama tonight." donna: "no no no. I'm not uncommitted, I'm undeclared. Words matter."
21:13:04< zapATIsta> did anyone hear the speech where clinton started to say if obama wins she'll support him bigtime and go on to say if she wins she expects the same from him, but the entire crowd cut her off with chants of obama! and yes we can?
21:13:43< tmanternach> GOBAMA! giving the wolfpack sign during the speech, what a badass
21:13:49< adamrg> zapATIsta: I realize this is going to sound very 2.0-ish, but youtube or it didn't happen. :P
21:14:05< zapATIsta> hehehehe
21:14:16< ryan_i> Wolfpack? TARHEELS! ;)
21:14:28< tmanternach> adamrg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqcJOfelTsc
21:14:56< adamrg> excellent... it happened!
21:14:59< zapATIsta> thanks tmant...
21:15:06< tmanternach> no problem
21:15:19< zapATIsta> obama says "victory in a big state" and the crowd roars.
21:15:28< zapATIsta> this is going to be another really good speech.
21:15:46< adamrg> I liked the "The only game that needs changing is the one in Washington D.C." line
21:15:56< zapATIsta> me too
21:15:59< livenotstopping> Congratulated Clinton for victory in Indiana. Classy.
21:16:05< adamrg> indeed.
21:16:16< miguel> So Indiana is lost?
21:16:20< tmanternach> livenotstopping: did he congratulate her? i missed that part
21:16:24< livenotstopping> Yeah he did.
21:16:27< tmanternach> good
21:16:31< GabeW> just now
21:16:32< tmanternach> I was hoping he would
21:16:46< adamrg> miguel: possibly... it'll be close, but he was classy and congratulated Clinton on "what appears to be" a win.
21:16:48< livenotstopping> It's 68% in, 53-47
21:17:08< zapATIsta> I get weepy when he talks about "together" 
21:17:12< GabeW> nobody has called it yet
21:17:25< zapATIsta> you know he's one of the only people who has remembered to mention native americans in almost every speech?
21:17:31< tmanternach> what did that guy in the crowd just say?
21:17:36< tmanternach> sounded like "we love you"
21:17:57< ryan_i> didn't catch it
21:17:59< adamrg> Yes! He's sounding presidential and working on unity!
21:18:00< SeanO> GabeW CBS called it for Indiana earlier. Did they back away?
21:18:17-!- carol [n=chatzill@24-247-104-169.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
21:18:19< GabeW> oh
21:18:22< tmanternach> http://www.cbsnews.com/
21:18:23< GabeW> fox and cnn haven't
21:18:27< tmanternach> cbs still has it called for her
21:18:28-!- jasoncalacanis_ [n=jasoncal@209.31.53.34.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
21:18:59< zapATIsta> hi carol, hi jason
21:19:03< SeanO> 1 TV tonight. sticking with CNN for now
21:19:20< GabeW> think that under 5% would change the story
21:19:28< livenotstopping> I like the talk about being united. It's good.
21:19:34-!- macroron [n=ron@c-98-203-6-135.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
21:19:35< livenotstopping> Being the bigger person than Clinton I think.
21:19:35< tmanternach> Dave Winer said it best one time (I think it was him): He's already President.
21:19:37< GabeW> the narrative will be "obama's recovering from the wright affair"
21:19:46< carol> Hi zap...just stopping by
21:20:28< zapATIsta> did Winer say that in late 2004?
21:20:34< zapATIsta> ;)
21:20:48-!- jonathanwallace [n=robotpok@cmcust4uc-117.250.newnanutilities.org] has quit []
21:21:12< tmanternach> zapATIsta: http://twitter.com/davewiner/statuses/773389186
21:21:18< zapATIsta> gaveW more like making the "wright affair" mean almost nothing.
21:21:41-!- stevegio [n=steve@196.sub-70-210-166.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:21:42< GabeW> really, all he has to do is run out the clock
21:21:48< zapATIsta> nice.
21:21:52< GabeW> hillary is attack attack attack because she's running out of time
21:21:59< GabeW> he can just be above it
21:22:08< GabeW> watch her speech tonight
21:22:11< zapATIsta> middle march is about when hillary SHOULD have called obama and asked for a cabinet position in the future.
21:22:13< tmanternach> I want her to stay in until the end now....
21:22:14< GabeW> it will be vicious 
21:22:22< SeanO> We all have a weird crazy uncle, why can't our next president... Ohhhh Uncle Wright, you crazy dood!
21:22:27< adamrg> GabeW: one friend put it this way -- it's like the end of a basketball game, when you are down, you shoot threes and foul
21:22:37< tmanternach> get both of them to campaign in the next 5 states
21:22:39< zapATIsta> yes, unfortuntaly she'll be all attack and what's not attack will be coded race language.
21:22:44< GabeW> adamrg: its more like your trying to injure the other team
21:22:46< tmanternach> I'm out in Montana, no one gives a shit about us :)
21:22:51< GabeW> so they can't go on to the next round of the playoffs and win
21:23:17< zapATIsta> "he won the knife fight in NC because I didn't have my gun; and I won so shabbily in Indiana because I ran out of bullets."
21:23:27< adamrg> GabeW: well, change the scale of the reward, change the viciousness of the attack
21:23:55< adamrg> tmanternach: I do, because I'd love to see Obama win your state :)
21:24:06-!- mterenzio [n=systemma@ool-44c63e7e.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
21:24:06< tmanternach> me too!
21:24:20-!- emmanu [n=Emmanuel@modemcable098.218-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
21:24:48< mterenzio> gotta get down to the cumberland mines!!!
21:24:57< adamrg> tmanternach -- my racist grandfather (a central Montana farmer who still uses words like "negro") and my Republican aunt (farm wife) and their families are all Obama supporters
21:25:05< GabeW> 4 points!
21:25:08< GabeW> its down to 4 points
21:25:13< GabeW> with 71% reporting
21:25:19< tmanternach> adamrg: very good to know. I don't know a Hillary supporter out here.
21:25:22< zapATIsta> tmanternach. youall have a ton of coal. let us run out of oil before infrastructure is built for alternatives. we'll need montana like a lamb needs mama
21:25:24< mterenzio> @adamrg been seeing alot of that myself
21:25:34< SeanO> MSNBC 71% reporting, 48% Obama, 53% Clinton
21:25:48< SeanO> sprry 52% clinton
21:26:07< zapATIsta> did he just say native americans again? yippie!
21:26:09< jdandrea> "4%! 4%! Everyone gets a car! Everyone gets a car!"
21:26:14< GabeW> hehe
21:26:27< adamrg> 42k spread in votes now... 1% counted closed it up 10k
21:26:28< zapATIsta> less than 5 she really SHOULD concede.
21:26:40< manton> zapATIsta: Haha. You are kidding right?
21:26:44< manton> She won't concede.
21:26:51< zapATIsta> a guy can dream right?
21:26:53< manton> And she shouldn't.
21:27:00< GabeW> it would be funny if during Obama's speech he says "um, let me retract that congratulations on Indiana..."
21:27:07< miguel> She should ;-)
21:27:07< zapATIsta> well you're sorta right.
21:27:10< Lixoarte> heh
21:27:13< zapATIsta> it's like this for me. 
21:27:15< tmanternach> check this out: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/state/#IN Look at the map at the bottom left
21:27:26< tmanternach> Lake county is STILL at 0%, that's damn good
21:27:27< miguel> This idea that "she has the right to keep running, so we should not ask her to stop" makes no sense
21:27:29< manton> tmanternach: I'm more curious about the upper-left.
21:27:39< tmanternach> he is predicted to do very good in that county
21:27:41< jdandrea> tmanternach: Lake County - hmm ...
21:27:43< zapATIsta> I think at this part of the contest there should still be like 6 candidates duking it out. right up to the convention. that's what conventions are supposed to be about.
21:27:44< jdandrea> :)
21:27:46< GabeW> this is going to be close
21:27:54< tmanternach> manton: I know....I meant that map itself is at the bottom left of the page
21:28:01< manton> tmanternach: Oh, gotcha.
21:28:05< adamrg> tmanternach: Hamilton county is at 35% counted, and 61% for Obama
21:28:15< manton> miguel: Who are you to tell someone they should stop running? It's her supporters who decide that.
21:28:17< zapATIsta> but if it's down to 2 so early as it was, then one should step off early to begin healing and plan the group effort against the opponent.
21:28:21< GabeW> wow,indiana is old
21:28:26< tmanternach> adamrg: where the fuck is hamilton county? 
21:28:32< miguel> A concerned citizen
21:28:37< adamrg> North of Indianapolis
21:28:40< tmanternach> ok
21:28:43< GabeW> half of the state is over 45?
21:28:46< GabeW> wow
21:28:49< SeanO> If they just had superbowl class commercials tonight, this evening would be totally awesome ;)
21:28:57< miguel> Of course, she can continue to bankroll her presidency
21:29:02< miguel> Buy her the presidency
21:29:05< miguel> After all, its her turn
21:29:22< zapATIsta> sean0 hahahaha
21:29:23< GabeW> oh heh, california is older
21:29:28< GabeW> 60% 
21:29:29< zapATIsta> lol!
21:29:31< manton> miguel: Uhm, that's not what happened. Her campaign was funded the same as Obama's, with a bunch of $55 contributions.
21:29:33< GabeW> oh these are democrats only
21:29:56< tmanternach> manton: really? is that backed up by facts?
21:30:00< zapATIsta> I think obama should pick obama girl as his running mate.
21:30:14< manton> tmanternach: Sure. Campaign has announced it at least once or twice.
21:30:17< adamrg> manton: Well, not really funded "the same" because she's still running on fumes while he's sitting on piles of cash.
21:30:38< SeanO> How about crazy Uncle Wright for VP?
21:30:48< tmanternach> manton: OK. Just curious (honestly), have they released their "average donation" number?
21:30:55< zapATIsta> hahahaha
21:30:56< tmanternach> I think his is like 96 dollars.
21:31:20< adamrg> I hear 2300 dollars is a very popular amount for donations to the Clinton campaign.
21:31:22< manton> tmanternach: I'm pretty sure around March I heard under $100. I don't have it in front of me.
21:31:31< tmanternach> OK
21:31:53< manton> This is the rhetoric I am talking about. The big lobbyist money is a myth. (It was true last year. Not true post Super Tuesday.)
21:32:11< tmanternach> manton: That's because they are all maxed out
21:32:25< miguel> manton, not sure about that
21:32:31< GabeW> she's loaned herself a ton of omney
21:32:34< manton> I'm pretty sure.
21:32:34< GabeW> a *ton*
21:32:35< zapATIsta> he said "perfect this nation"
21:32:36< miguel> Lobbysts can shell out 2,300 fairly easily
21:32:37< zapATIsta> yay
21:32:49< manton> She loaned herself $5 mil before her supporters realized she was broke. Months ago.
21:32:50< miguel> Obama does not take money from anyone working as a lobbyist
21:33:38< tmanternach> I like this "Why I'm Running" speech of his
21:33:41< miguel> Clinton on the other hand differs there
21:33:58< miguel> She is more of the People-on-the-lobby-are-americans
21:34:25< adamrg> Clinton's 10 million dollar night had 50k donors -- that's $200 per person
21:34:43< miguel> NOt bad
21:34:56< miguel> Everyone donating to my Obama fund raiser is poorer ;-)
21:35:02< miguel> 25, 50 at most
21:35:15< adamrg> Obama's number is about 100 still
21:35:40< adamrg> because 27k people have maxed out (given 2300) to his campaign
21:36:05< miguel> How many maxed out for Clinton?
21:36:19< manton> adamrg: Link? I've heard up to 100k donors, making it $100 per person.
21:36:33< manton> But even at $200, that's a ton of small $5 donations.
21:36:41< manton> To average out.
21:36:48< miguel> My VC got me into Obama
21:36:59< miguel> Back when I was an Kucinichista
21:37:24-!- grigs [n=grigs@c-76-27-210-204.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
21:37:47< GabeW> wow, this is going to be close
21:37:47-!- ryan_i [n=ryan@cpe-069-134-211-094.nc.res.rr.com] has quit []
21:37:50< zapATIsta> miguel: what means vc here?
21:37:53-!- Genghis_ [n=chatzill@76-191-145-238.dyn.dsl.coastside.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
21:37:57< GabeW> hehe
21:37:57< zapATIsta> vice chairman?
21:38:03< GabeW> doesn't everyone have a VC?
21:38:18< zapATIsta> vertical challenge?
21:38:21< SeanO> I took antibiotics for my VC
21:38:22< miguel> Well, I guess my ex-vc
21:38:23< zapATIsta> viet cong?
21:38:43< miguel> I think he is on Obama's finance committee
21:38:53-!- Genghis_ [n=chatzill@76-191-145-238.dyn.dsl.coastside.net] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary []
21:38:53< davewiner__> beautiful speech
21:39:14-!- christophercarfi [n=chatzill@76-191-145-238.dyn.dsl.coastside.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
21:39:22< tmanternach> margin is down to less than 40,000 in IN now!
21:39:27< zapATIsta> I bet Hillary's quite hard to live with right now.
21:39:37< tmanternach> currently at 38,000
21:39:40< GabeW> *now*?
21:39:50< zapATIsta> she's probably biting bill and chelsea's fingernails off to the nubs by now.
21:39:59< tmanternach> how many times will Hillary say "hillaryclinton.com" in her speech tonight?
21:40:06< zapATIsta> hehehehe
21:40:24< manton> davewiner__: Agreed, solid speech. I liked the part about a united party especially.
21:40:42< zapATIsta> wooh, fox makes it feel like a football game right down to the dramatic wagnerish music.
21:40:52< davewiner__> manton, amen to unity
21:40:56< miguel> Am missing the speech
21:41:02< GabeW> did ya'll watch the excrutiating 4x overtime sharks/stars playoff game?
21:41:06< miguel> Is she really saying "hillaryclinton.com"?   Raising funds?
21:41:09< davewiner__> miguel the speech is over
21:41:14< GabeW> that was the perfect analogy
21:41:16< tmanternach> miguel: she says it all of the time
21:41:19< davewiner__> is hillary speaking?
21:41:20< miguel> I should have gone home ;-)
21:41:21< GabeW> except the wrong team won the hockey team
21:41:24< davewiner__> not on msnbc
21:41:28< manton> miguel: She's not on yet. But she routinely does, yes.
21:41:36< tmanternach> davewiner__: not yet
21:41:39< miguel> Heh
21:41:42< zapATIsta> FLASH: Clinton changes her name to Hillary Clinton . com ; news at 11
21:41:53< miguel> Like the Office episode with "Infinity Two Point Oh"
21:41:55< davewiner__> they are HAPPY on MSNBC
21:42:03< manton> I'm guessing she waits until this is called to speak. So close.
21:42:15< tmanternach> CBS called it
21:42:21< davewiner__> i know cbs called it
21:42:23< davewiner__> oooops
21:42:24< tmanternach> no doubt she will win the state
21:42:25< davewiner__> :-)
21:42:48< manton> There's a little bit of doubt. They'll call it after Lake county, I guess.
21:43:01< davewiner__> russert says gas tax issue helped him
21:43:02< tmanternach> yeah...wtf are those folks in Lake County doing?
21:43:07< davewiner__> took the focus off wright
21:43:07< tmanternach> supper time, perhaps
21:43:33-!- emmanu [n=Emmanuel@modemcable098.218-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary []
21:43:39< christophercarfi> census facts on Lake County, IN : http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/18/18089.html
21:44:23< zapATIsta> maybe next week hillary will offer TWO gas holidays this summer if people will only vote for her.
21:44:29< GabeW> gah
21:44:30< GabeW> ok
21:44:33< GabeW> i need to run
21:44:36< GabeW> catch ya later
21:44:40< tmanternach> ttyl GabeW 
21:44:41< zapATIsta> later gabew
21:44:49< SeanO> bye GabW
21:45:04< tmanternach> 26% black in Lake County
21:45:16< christophercarfi> lake county is about half the size of marion county (where indianapolis is)
21:45:21-!- brucelerner [n=bruc3@adsl-76-239-46-119.dsl.mrdnct.sbcglobal.net] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary ["Konversation terminated!"]
21:45:31-!- emman1 [n=mem@modemcable098.218-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
21:46:00< christophercarfi> very similar racial breakdown, both are about 74/26
21:46:18< christophercarfi> very similar gender breakdown
21:46:20< tmanternach> and he took Indianapolis 66 to 34
21:46:33< GabeW> the margin is shrinking
21:46:50< christophercarfi> marion county has higher education levels than lake county
21:47:16-!- miguel [n=miguel@nat/novell/x-2f594ba432565bf4] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:47:28< christophercarfi> lake county is slightly older
21:48:40-!- Curtis [n=chatzill@c-75-71-208-102.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 3.0b5/2008032620]"]
21:48:45-!- livenotstopping [n=jessica@70.158.1.254] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
21:49:12< SeanO> Brokaw... Alergies or serious cold? Not looking very healthy tonight.
21:49:55< christophercarfi> i'll guess there'll be about 90,000-120,000 votes cast in lake county
21:50:14< zapATIsta> gary hasn't been counted yet.
21:50:39< zapATIsta> gary, indiana is very close to chicago and huge percentage nonwhite
21:51:09< christophercarfi> based on the demographics, if lake county breaks similar to marion county (65/35 or so), it's going to be REALLY close
21:51:31< zapATIsta> hahaha. cnn says bloomington is only 2% in but a college town and obama's winning 80% to something.
21:51:59< SeanO> 31K spread in Indiana. wow
21:52:01< adamrg> CNN says Obama needs 55% of the outstanding vote to take the state
21:52:17< christophercarfi> holy crap.  he might pull it off.
21:52:38< adamrg> yeah, Lake county needs to come in strong
21:52:42< adamrg> 31k spread at the moment
21:52:43< tmanternach> is CNN still saying "too early to call"
21:52:55< zapATIsta> wolf blitzer makes me want to go cowtipping. I don't, know, why...
21:53:01< christophercarfi> HA
21:53:07< tmanternach> you're fucking crazy
21:53:16< zapATIsta> thanks.
21:53:20< zapATIsta> I think.
21:53:20< tmanternach> anytime
21:53:49< christophercarfi> obama up 67/33 in marion county
21:53:49< peterjhill> gary indiana gary indiana gary indiana...... come on music man!
21:54:10< adamrg> how do the demographics compare between Marion and Lake?
21:54:22< christophercarfi> scroll up adamrg
21:54:24-!- jasoncalacanis_ [n=jasoncal@209.31.53.34.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit []
21:54:25< tmanternach> adamrg: pretty similar, from what we can tell
21:54:34< zapATIsta> heh
21:54:34< christophercarfi> white/black same
21:54:40< manton> Pop vote totals are being updated. Big gains for Obama because of NC.
21:54:40< manton> http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_vote_count.html
21:54:44< christophercarfi> marion slightly more educated
21:54:46< zapATIsta> I keep thinking of "indiana wants me, but I can't go back there..."
21:54:50< christophercarfi> lake slightly older
21:54:51< manton> That was Hillary's last chance, really.
21:55:10< zapATIsta> there's those elitist people taking breaks from their final exams to go and vote for obama.
21:55:12< SeanO> Sounds like we can expect another wave of results in the next 10 minutes per MSNBC
21:55:15< christophercarfi> Lake: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/18/18089.html
21:55:25< christophercarfi> Marion: http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/18/18097.html
21:55:42< adamrg> Older isn't helpful to Obama... but large African American population is... so again, tossup.
21:55:53-!- pjw [n=pjw@72.8.76.134] has quit []
21:56:32-!- mrichman_ [n=mrichman@c-76-16-230-101.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
21:57:15-!- domesticat [n=amy@12-202-221-200.client.mchsi.com] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
21:57:16-!- mrichman_ [n=mrichman@c-76-16-230-101.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary []
21:57:25< davewiner__> Clinton's speech is going to be a real interesting spin job.
21:57:40< manton> davewiner__: Let's wait to hear it before judging. :-)
21:57:50< manton> I think they must be rewriting it right now.
21:57:54< davewiner__> welll
21:57:54< tmanternach> HAHA. Lanny Davis is whining on CNN
21:57:59< davewiner__> just using my imagination
21:58:10< christophercarfi> bloomington is in monroe county.  obama up 67/33 with only *23* percent reporting there, too
21:58:12< davewiner__> switcing to cnn
21:58:28< adamrg> Commercial time... watching FN spin things. Gotta give the Republicans one thing, they do numbers well.
21:58:35-!- mib_ey21u0 [i=5b78acd7@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9712c83e8c9e5bf8] has quit ["http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"]
21:58:36-!- markr_ [n=mrichman@c-76-16-230-101.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
21:58:49< manton> I like CBS News has a prominent link to the IN exits, as if to justify why they called it early.
21:58:56< manton> Silly news outlets.
21:59:05< davewiner__> a lot of humility with lanny 
21:59:05< zapATIsta> "lanny's a little agitated." hehehehe
21:59:24< tmanternach> he was really pissed at the beginning
21:59:31< tmanternach> "no, you haven't heard from me tonight."
21:59:31-!- markr_ [n=mrichman@c-76-16-230-101.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]
21:59:47< tmanternach> "we have paul begala on here, a clinton supporter." "he didn't get to say much either."
21:59:48< zapATIsta> republicans aren't elitist, but they can count using their fingers and toes.
22:00:24< tmanternach> Ouch!
22:00:27< tmanternach> Go Anderson!
22:00:36< domesticat> I liked the wince of pain. 
22:00:36< zapATIsta> lanny and anderson vanderbilt cooper both have the same smile and the same chin
22:00:42< adamrg> zapATIsta: in some portions of the south, with certain family trees, they can count to 12 or 24 that way.
22:00:57< zapATIsta> hehehehe
22:01:08 * domesticat glares at adamrg
22:01:14< domesticat> Keep it up, and no barbecue for you :)
22:01:19 * manton also glares.
22:01:21< davewiner__> boy you can hear the change in lanny davis 
22:01:29< davewiner__> this guy REALLY was annoying 
22:01:29< tmanternach> Lanny Davis: There is a reason they haven't had you on tonight. You are a whiny bitch. Paul Begala is much better at defending Hillary than you.
22:01:34< davewiner__> now he's very nice
22:01:41< zapATIsta> ooh, I would love to run adobe audition's deesser on lanny.
22:01:43< davewiner__> i'd give him a hug if he were here
22:02:09< davewiner__> he doesn't want to piss off the nominee
22:02:22< davewiner__> david gurgen gives him a verbal hug
22:02:56< davewiner__> it would be so dramatic if hillary chooses this moment to say thank you 
22:03:07< davewiner__> for all the support and great energy from my supporters
22:03:17< davewiner__> and now i will go take a vacation with my husband
22:03:23< tmanternach> there is no chance in hell davewiner__ .....but that would make me cry
22:03:27< tmanternach> happy tears, of course
22:03:27< davewiner__> and come back charged to run for governor of new york
22:03:37< adamrg> 19% to go... 35k spread... time for some regex magic in that speech s/we won/we ran a good campaign/
22:03:41< davewiner__> i just love happy ending tmanternach
22:04:01< amyloo> what are the odds of a concesssion? wagers? I'll take 15%.
22:04:10-!- grigs [n=grigs@c-76-27-210-204.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit []
22:04:14< tmanternach> i'll take 1.5%, lol
22:04:20< davewiner__> i'm an optimist amyloo, i'll take 50-50
22:04:35< amyloo> hopemonger
22:04:40< tmanternach> lol
22:04:43< davewiner__> hillary says I love AMerican
22:04:48< davewiner__> this is a great country
22:04:51< adamrg> What Obama needs to do is drop 14 supers tonight if he wins IN -- even up the super count -- and the smackdown would be complete.
22:04:54< davewiner__> and john mccain is a war hero
22:04:59< davewiner__> but we can't have him as president
22:05:07< davewiner__> so i'm endorsing barack obama for president
22:05:09< zapATIsta> she won't be able to be governor of new york unless she does the nasty with Ashley Alexandra Dupré
22:05:26< tmanternach> zapATIsta: don't tempt her, she will do it
22:05:30< amyloo> more like alexander dumas
22:05:32-!- grigs [n=grigs@c-76-27-210-204.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
22:05:34< davewiner__> ok i'm going back to msnbc
22:05:40< davewiner__> i don't care about the numbers
22:06:29< zapATIsta> davewiner I just want to say it's so much fun cyberchannelsurfing with an old hipster like you I wanna cry.
22:06:42< zapATIsta> ;)
22:06:53< SeanO> Hey Rova the Hut on Fox. Big Surprise
22:07:00-!- davewiner_ [n=davewine@c-24-4-205-40.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
22:07:17 * zapATIsta wants to watch mcrove do his dance again. 
22:07:46< amyloo> so much for "he can't win"
22:08:07< adamrg> Does anyone else find MSNBC's little flipping box frustrating?  I want that vote total up there full time.
22:08:17< zapATIsta> yeah, he's too elitist to close the deal.
22:08:19< tmanternach> the spin by Lanny Davis is tremendous
22:08:20< amyloo> supers won't buy the argument
22:08:25< J> when was Obama crowing that he would win Indiana?  I'm not sure what news Lanny Davis was reading.  Spinneroo
22:08:31< zapATIsta> He only won tonite because he's black
22:08:51< adamrg> zapATIsta: the affirmative action argument... that'll work.
22:09:09< zapATIsta> hahahaha. cnn's gone back to saying too EARLY to call.
22:09:09< davewiner__> it's fun to listen to the pundits tonight
22:09:16< davewiner__> finally something changed
22:09:23< amyloo> southsiders...
22:09:40< davewiner__> and these guys have been closet Obamamen
22:09:52< davewiner__> even Lanny Davis
22:09:53< tmanternach> LOL, CNN is great tonight
22:09:59< amyloo> betcha more of his supporters are Cubs fans
22:10:00< tmanternach> jamal simmons is great
22:10:01< domesticat> "...she'd be my uncle."
22:10:09< zapATIsta> no that was FUNNY
22:10:09< davewiner__> ok i'm back on cnn now
22:10:16< zapATIsta> anderson cooper was sooooo embarrassed.
22:10:18< J> "If Michigan counts, and if Florida counts, and if my aunt were born a man she'd be my uncle"
22:10:24< tmanternach> "if my aunt had a male appendage, she'd be my uncle." 
22:10:32< zapATIsta> dave you missed it. he said if my aunt had a male appendage she'd be my uncle.
22:10:41< J> male appendage, that's it
22:11:04< amyloo> what will Hillary say?
22:11:23< tmanternach> amyloo: "goto hillaryclinton.com and show your support by donating tonight"
22:11:30< zapATIsta> hehehe
22:11:36< SeanO> Hopefully nothing about aunts, uncles and appendages
22:11:53< davewiner__> I just announced on Twitter that HRC will concede tonight.
22:11:59< zapATIsta> "my uncle used to love me but she died."
22:12:03< zapATIsta>   -- roger miller
22:12:11< domesticat> Based on what, Dave?
22:12:25-!- davewiner [n=davewine@c-24-4-205-40.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:12:26< amyloo> if she sticks to form she'll pretend it's still a ballgame, but with a forced smile
22:12:32< davewiner__> based on my belief
22:12:44< davewiner__> i called it a month ago
22:12:50< davewiner__> i say may 6 would be the end
22:13:12< davewiner__> after texas/ohio
22:13:39< adamrg> again... we're in the last two minutes of a hard fought championship game... 18 points down, it is time to shoot threes and foul... I'm not convinced she is going to foul out tonight, but it's pretty close.
22:13:58< davewiner__> but it's not basketball adamrg it's politics
22:14:03< J> What I don't get about Bill & Hillary's latest line that only they can pull in the white working class vote: Obama won Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, Illinois, Nebraska, and even Virginia (which is mixed between working class west/south and white-collar east/north).  Bill has also been saying that int's only their campaign that will represent everyone.  This doesn't follow -- either those other white working class midwester
22:14:03< J> n states count, in which case Bill & Hilary are wrong about their working class claim, or Bill & Hillary just don't give a shit about representing anyone except those who deliver them votes
22:14:05< amyloo> Dave, I'd say 15% chance tonight but doubling in 2 days
22:14:38< adamrg> davewiner__: I think we may look back in a few weeks and say she *should* have conceded tonight.
22:14:38< manton> davewiner__: With all due respect, you also said that Obama would sweep Texas and Ohio. ;-)
22:15:00-!- jonathanwallace [n=robotpok@cmcust4uc-117.250.newnanutilities.org] has joined #indiananorthcarolinaprimary
22:15:26< manton> But how she can win now, I dunno. She had to edge out in the popular vote and NC has killed that chance.
22:15:34< zapATIsta> J: if you remove fear from coded race language leading up to primaries I bet even the white vote goes toward obama in a big way. 2006 elections were all about anti-war, pro-change, anti-republican generally and anti-incumbant specifically.
22:15:58< zapATIsta> almost all of that energy should go to obama, even much republican and conservative independents.
22:16:45< tmanternach> 11,000+ absentee votes in Lake County
22:16:50< zapATIsta> she had to win both states by a large margin to be in it still. not to win it.
22:16:55< adamrg> CNN magic map man: "Can he do it?  Yes he can... mathematically."
22:17:06< mordecai> there is no way she's conceding davewiner_ 
22:17:12< J> I'm originally from Wisconsin via Omaha, and have family from Omaha to Milwaukee, and I'm living in Virginia now.  Mainly a white working class family.  Before the racing of the race in South Carolina, etc., when it was still ideas, Obama had their attention.
22:17:17< zapATIsta> of course the emperor had no clothes on and insisted that he DID in fact have clothes.
22:17:46< manton> zapATIsta: For the record, I disagree, but it's a pointless argument right now so I won't push it.
22:18:00< zapATIsta> maybe hillary will say, we don't have the electorate, we don't have the delegates, we don't have the super delegates and we dont have the extra two states and we don't have any money left but you really should install us because we're not really black.
22:18:22< mordecai> she won't let it die until all the superdelagtes leave her
22:18:28< mordecai> this was her borthright
22:18:34< zapATIsta> hehe
22:18:39< tmanternach> wow...no numbers until midnight? wtf
22:18:40< mordecai> birth*
22:18:46< manton> What people don't understand is that her supporters _like_ that about her. She doesn't give up.
22:18:49< tmanternach> Is Larry King going to have to call this thing?
22:18:52< zapATIsta> any idea if she had anything to do with the early creation of superdelegate structure?
22:18:54< manton> She would betray their trust to drop out until it is decided.
22:19:03< mordecai> yea exactly
22:19:11< mordecai> plus its her birthriht
22:19:11< adamrg> manton: I still don't understand why the popular vote comes into this... because my vote doesn't count, because I'm in a caucus state (and an unimportant state, and a small state...)
22:19:29< mordecai> adamrg: even with the popular vote she still loses
22:19:34< mordecai> even if you don't count caucus states
22:19:51< J> I don't have MSNBC -- what's Russert up to?
22:19:56< mordecai> north carolina sealed that
22:20:09< manton> adamrg: Pop vote is relevant because if she had won it (she didn't, but it's close), that would be an argument for supers not worrying so much about the pledged count.
22:20:10< adamrg> mordecai: that's my point -- why do Clinton supporters view the popular vote as having some kind of meaning in the current system
22:20:35< mordecai> because thats what she and her surrogates are telling them to think
22:20:37< manton> adamrg: It has exactly as much meaning as pledged count. That is to say, not much. All that matters is the total vote.
22:20:54< mordecai> they too think its their birthright
22:21:10< SeanO> davewiner__:  I think your prediction just crashed twitter
22:21:15< mordecai> ha
22:21:20< davewiner__> heh
22:21:24< zapATIsta> the more variables you can push, the greater your chances of getting this thing decided in the us supreme court.
22:21:27< adamrg> manton: pledged count doesn't matter?  I'm pretty sure that (despite arguments that pledged delegates aren't bound to vote their district's will) pledged delegates actually do matter.
22:21:46< manton> adamrg: What I mean is that they don't decide who wins. Pledged + supers do.
22:21:48< zapATIsta> and everyone knows scalia will give it to hillary if she's willing to let bill smoke cigars with him. 
22:22:35-!- markr_ [n=mrichman@c-76-16-230-101.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
22:22:36-!- tommorris_ [n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net] has joined #IndianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
22:23:00-!- markr_ [n=mrichman@c-76-16-230-101.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit]
22:23:27< J> Woke up last night to an X-Files episode and heard: "This is America -- the most votes don't always win."
22:23:51< christophercarfi> about 160K votes left to count in indiana.  about a 40K gap.  if obama gets >62% of what's left, he's pulls ahead.
22:24:03< manton> zapATIsta: What are talking about? Also, wikpedia page on supers has a pretty good overview on supers (your comment is a bit ridiculous). Also look at 68 and 72 conventions.
22:24:12< hilarytalbot> twitter's down 
22:24:15< christophercarfi> demos in lake county similar to marion county, with a couple of diffs that slightly favor hillary.
22:24:25< adamrg> manton: That's true. Pledged delegates are part of the system, whereas the popular vote is an arbitrary measure because it discounts states that caucus (which have gone overwhelmingly for Obama).
22:24:29< christophercarfi> it's gonna be a squeaker
22:24:39< zapATIsta> superdelegates have to weigh going against the will of the people against voting against a winner who can't go on to win the general election (did I say that right?) but more importantly to their version of politics most of them are terrified to pick someone too early and then have to face the winner that they didn't back.
22:24:57< mordecai> superdelegates won't back the loser
22:25:02< zapATIsta> manton I was joking. hillary's not able to bring the decision into the supreme court I dont' think.
22:25:11< adamrg> Lanny Davis is back... this is awesome.
22:25:15< manton> adamrg: Sure. Although the realclearpolitics.com page tries to estimate caucuses too.
22:25:26< mordecai> adamrg: is he getting beaten about the face and neck?
22:25:28< manton> zapATIsta: Uhm, okay. Hard to tell, sorry.
22:25:43< zapATIsta> jezuz, lanny looks like he's someone's dentist, not an analyst
22:25:48< davewiner__> wow my prediction really did crash twitter
22:26:30< adamrg> Lanny Davis: "It's all Hillary Clinton, except for pockets of support for Barack Obama" -- Lanny, those are called CITIES.
22:26:33< davewiner__> lanny davis may be finding his sea legs again
22:26:45< davewiner__> that comment almost sounded nasty
22:27:01< zapATIsta> heh
22:27:05< J> cipes, Davis, very few people live outside the urban counties in Indiana; the areas of population density are breaking for Obama.  Votes are based on people, not size of real estate
22:27:12< jsantel_> ha! dave... it doesn't take much these days to crash twitter...
22:27:18< zapATIsta> Thanks for noticing—we're going to fix it up and have things back to normal soon.
22:27:20< christophercarfi> adamrg lol
22:27:25< jsantel_> but you did go out on a limb.
22:27:36< davewiner__> problem for davis is that they tried blowing smoke at the electorate and they caught on that they were being smoked
22:27:50< zapATIsta> davewiner_ dating myself but I remember thinking I crashed all of irc once back in the day when netsplits were a big issue.
22:28:23< davewiner__> come on everyone knows that twitter crashing is a republican plot to deny me my triumph!
22:28:34< manton> Heh.
22:28:46< jsantel_> :))
22:28:46< SeanO> :)
22:28:47< zapATIsta> hehe
22:28:48-!- atonse [n=ashish@c-24-125-33-217.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
22:28:49< davewiner__> lanny davis and donna love each other
22:29:05< davewiner__> lanny is trying to find his sea legs
22:29:10< davewiner__> his voice is quivering
22:29:13< manton> They are starting the process at the Hillary rally. Other folks speaking first.
22:29:18< zapATIsta> nah, it's more like a sure sign that evan did a lot of it using ruby on rails. thank g-d he didn't use dotnetnuke
22:29:20< adamrg> I just can't see Lanny and Donna sitting down together socially.
22:29:44< davewiner__> i love donna brazile
22:29:47< davewiner__> there i said it
22:29:51< zapATIsta> maybe they can do one of those global warming commercials. 
22:30:02< davewiner__> donna said she wants to fight with lanny in the green room!!
22:30:06< adamrg> I'm pretty sure Donna just challenged manny to a brawl!
22:30:08< davewiner__> with clothes or not?
22:30:10< domesticat> Cage match.
22:30:16< adamrg> Fight! Fight! Fight!
22:30:18< davewiner__> any kind of food?
22:30:23< domesticat> Jello.
22:30:31< davewiner__> puppets?
22:30:34< christophercarfi> too-small bread
22:30:37< zapATIsta> I'm lanny and this is donna. we don't agree on much but we both think climate change is a natural thing that happens every 28 days, so I use tamp... oops. took a wrong turn in albuquerque there.
22:31:05< davewiner__> i hope lanny never wins anything
22:31:09< davewiner__> that would be truly disgusting
22:31:21< davewiner__> he makes a much better loser
22:31:29< domesticat> The next time the climate-change commercial comes on, I want to screencap/lolcat it with something like "One of these two people may be the antichrist."
22:31:34< zapATIsta> me thinks obama would beat hillary in a celebrity death match.
22:31:42< davewiner__> that's it lanny davis is the antichrist!
22:32:01< adamrg> zapATIsta: I want to see that. Make it so!
22:32:04< davewiner__> lanny wants to be interrupte
22:32:09< amyloo> poor ol evan. he won't get to be dan quayle
22:32:10< davewiner__> hillary is about to speak
22:32:18< davewiner__> i bet she concees
22:32:21< davewiner__> concedes
22:32:25< zapATIsta> Anderson cooper, "Lanny, I want to call on you because you want talk about familial sex changes or anything"
22:32:30< davewiner__> the odds are now 3-to-1 she concedes
22:32:51< amyloo> says who, dave? 
22:32:57< atonse> dave we can only dream.
22:33:00< davewiner__> amyloo it's the official line
22:33:01< atonse> :)
22:33:03< amyloo> just because it's your chatroom
22:33:12< davewiner__> exactly!
22:33:26< amyloo> you're so full of shit ;-)
22:33:31-!- emman1 [n=mem@modemcable098.218-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary []
22:33:31< atonse> twitter issues for anyone else?
22:33:38< davewiner__> just switched to msnbc
22:33:41< davewiner__> atonse it's down
22:33:54-!- tommorris [n=tommorri@i-83-67-98-32.freedom2surf.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:33:57< adamrg> Dave... it's your world, we just chat in it... quite frankly, I'd love for you to be right.
22:34:06< jdandrea> Just the ongoing (gs) issues over at Media Temple for me ... slower than a turtle in reverse, I swear.
22:34:06< SeanO> twitterIssues++
22:34:07< zapATIsta> you know what's great about technology? 15 years ago only Hunter S Thompson sat in front of television telecommuting about it. Now 50 million of us are blogging and twittering about our common fear of evan baye's toupe.
22:34:24< atonse> lol
22:34:28< hilarytalbot> strange that she should speak before the IN poll is decided - unless she is going to concede
22:34:41< domesticat> Nah, I expect a 'stay strong'
22:34:42< adamrg> jdandrea: are the (gs) issues common?  I've been considering a switch to (mt)
22:34:43< atonse> didn't obama concede indiana though?
22:34:45< jsantel_> i'll take the odds... dean gave her the opening to stay in until june... They'll announce her campaign budget tomorrow and reveal she just made anothe "loan"...she'll take WV.. and we'll be on Dave's channel again for the Oregon results....
22:34:45< amyloo> hil, it's all to do with local news
22:34:51< zapATIsta> baye = bayh
22:35:04< amyloo> 30 minutes until 11 p.m. Eastern
22:35:10< jsantel_> who';s going to hit the road for oregon?
22:35:11< atonse> the only way i think she would concede is if the obama camp promised her the veep spot in secret and struck a deal.
22:35:22< adamrg> jsantel_: considering it
22:35:29< davewiner__> just think of how much everyone will love her if she concedes (except her supporters of course)
22:35:30< hilarytalbot> oh ok..
22:35:36< zapATIsta> dave, 3 to 1?
22:35:44< davewiner__> 3 to 1 she concees
22:36:06< zapATIsta> ah
22:36:10< davewiner__> why bother with reality?
22:36:10< jdandrea> adamrg: Alas (and alack), Grid Server has had its share of recurring issues, but then (mt) has a rather interesting setup with (gs) so who knows. http://tinyurl.com/54eqzt
22:36:15< davewiner__> fantasy is so much more fun
22:36:19< davewiner__> :-)
22:36:34< domesticat> Thank you, captain obvious
22:36:39< domesticat> "If you don't win, you lose."
22:36:45 * zapATIsta loves the expression alack
22:36:51< jdandrea> :)
22:37:00 * zapATIsta occasionally loves to call people dolt and knave too. :)
22:37:06< adamrg> the combination of "alas and alack" is one of my faves
22:37:07< jdandrea> rotfl!
22:37:10< zapATIsta> forgive me my english lit degree
22:37:17< davewiner__> hillary is taking the stage
22:37:19< jdandrea> I think it's a song lyric I heard in college Glee Club once.
22:37:22< amyloo> confetti or no confetti? (confetti would be pathetic)
22:37:27< davewiner__> she has a "concession look" to her
22:37:29< zapATIsta> hillary is running away with the stage.
22:37:31< davewiner__> a certain aura
22:37:34< adamrg> Ooh... blue, podium matching, pantsuit tonight.
22:37:38< jsantel_> ok let's see what she has to say now....
22:37:46< davewiner__> there's chelsea
22:37:49< davewiner__> and bill
22:37:51< davewiner__> bubba
22:37:56< zapATIsta> hillary is driving away in her white pickup truck with the stage; ahead of 15 squad cars.
22:38:04< davewiner__> boy she's actually tolerable
22:38:08< davewiner__> like lanny davis
22:38:14< adamrg> zapATIsta: is it painted like the general lee?
22:38:25< hilarytalbot> lol dave
22:38:26< zapATIsta> how much you want to bet hillary says she's winning by a landslide.
22:38:31< davewiner__> they love her in Indiana
22:38:36< jsantel_> she really has to ditch the pantsuits....
22:38:38< davewiner__> we support you in concession
22:38:43< zapATIsta> she has lanny's chin.
22:38:53< davewiner__> oh i see
22:38:58< davewiner__> that's how it's going to be
22:39:05< adamrg> yeah, sassy, not classy.
22:39:06< amyloo> she's going to pretend she's winning... 
22:39:07< tmanternach> Fuck
22:39:08< zapATIsta> I called it. she's winning by a landslide.
22:39:11< Lixoarte> omg
22:39:14< zapATIsta> full speed onto the white house.
22:39:15< davewiner__> she's pretending she;s not conceding
22:39:18< hilarytalbot> what tie
22:39:23< davewiner__> but she's going to surprise us now
22:39:24< J> Lanny Davis was already coordinated with the Clinton talking point
22:39:29< jdandrea> Full speed onto the White House!
22:39:32-!- ryan_i [n=ryan@cpe-069-134-211-094.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
22:39:34< jdandrea> Sez she ...
22:39:41< zapATIsta> alack. she's a dolt and a knave of the highest patard
22:39:45< jdandrea> I believe Mr. Winer called that one. :) Alack!
22:40:11< jdandrea> Hello Moto.
22:40:34< davewiner__> someone needs to moon her now
22:40:44< hilarytalbot> amazing how pollies can assert that black is white
22:40:47< SeanO> Is she inviting herself onto Obama's journey?
22:40:50< zapATIsta> hillaryclinton.com !!!
22:41:06< zapATIsta> she's eva fucking peron!
22:41:09< adamrg> Gimme some money!
22:41:10< davewiner__> yes we won't
22:41:12< davewiner__> yes we won't
22:41:17< davewiner__> yes we won't
22:41:34< tmanternach> here it comes
22:41:37< tmanternach> BAM
22:41:38< davewiner__> there it is
22:41:40< hilarytalbot> lol
22:41:41< davewiner__> boom
22:41:43< tmanternach> 2 points to me
22:41:45< amyloo> you called it zap
22:41:46< davewiner__> $$$
22:41:48< J> this is your campaign and your victory *words not valid in Virginia, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Illinois, Iowa or Minnesota*
22:41:50< SeanO> hrc.com++
22:41:56< zapATIsta> she's like the people with the big buckets at every protest who get permission to jump on stage and talk about how these big events cost so much money please dig deep yadda yadda
22:41:57< jdandrea> adamrg: <sing with me> Stop wasting my time / You know what I want / You know what I need / Or maybe you don't / Do I have to come right / Flat out and tell you everything? / Gimme some money ...
22:41:58< adamrg> s/outspend/have more supporters/
22:42:04< miguel_> OMG
22:42:12< davewiner__> don't forget scranton
22:42:13< miguel_> She just said "Go to hillaryclinton.com to support our campagin"
22:42:19< miguel_> "We are massive outspent"
22:42:20< zapATIsta> oh she's getting that groggy bill clinton voice. she's schmoosing the hell out of us now
22:42:23< amyloo> i'm embarrassed for her
22:42:25< miguel_> Said the millionaire ;-)
22:42:37< davewiner__> this is great
22:42:43< gustavo> I am so sick of 'yes we will'. whatever happened to the plagiarism charge she raised
22:42:43< davewiner__> so much better than if she had won tonight
22:42:47< jdandrea> This part needs a John Gruber translation in the worst way.
22:42:48< davewiner__> that would have been intolerable
22:42:59< davewiner__> pandering
22:43:00< domesticat> @jdandrea++ for Spinal Tap reference
22:43:03< atonse> didn't she win?
22:43:13< atonse> in Indiana
22:43:26< miguel_> "feel invisible"?
22:43:29< miguel_> I feel cheated, 
22:43:30< davewiner__> so what's her next stop?
22:43:30< atonse> by the overwhelming .............................. 4%?
22:43:35< adamrg> she knows what it is like to feel invisible?
22:43:43< davewiner__> the odds of her conceding are now lower than 3 to 1
22:43:44< miguel_> I just want to point out
22:43:45< adamrg> We can only hope.
22:43:57< miguel_> Hunter S Thomspon was nailing it from the get go
22:44:00< adamrg> Note the pause, "I will never stop fighting... for you."
22:44:02< davewiner__> yes we suck
22:44:04< miguel_> On Sep 11, 2002, he did this interview
22:44:04< davewiner__> yes we suck
22:44:06< davewiner__> yes we suck
22:44:07< domesticat> If she plugs for donations again, I'm going to start singing the money song from Avenue Q.
22:44:25< jdandrea> "I will never stop fighting ... for you." Negativland: "There it is again!"
22:44:57< miguel_> http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=W1-D7iAJnGY <- HST
22:45:00< amyloo> bill isn't vey smiley
22:45:12< adamrg> All I hear is pander, pander, pander, gas prices, pander, pander, pander.
22:45:12< davewiner__> another good thing: she won't be able to do an interview without the reporter asking when she's going to quit the race
22:45:19< jdandrea> Whoa. I get it. She's fighting for us and she's fighting _for_ us.
22:45:19< miguel_> haha
22:45:21< miguel_> good point
22:45:21< Lixoarte> wow, quoting Negativeland!
22:45:33< zapATIsta> hehehe
22:45:33< jdandrea> Lixoarte: Name the track!
22:45:48< atonse> how can she possibly think this gas tax break is a good idea? and how are people that delusional?
22:45:48< jdandrea> C'mon, it'll be fun.
22:45:55< zapATIsta> I know, hillary's going to propose a foreclosure mortgage payment vacation.
22:46:01< Lixoarte> can't! nor do i know how many time zones there are in the USSR :)
22:46:06< davewiner__> i'
22:46:14< davewiner__> i'd like a mortgage payment holiday!
22:46:21< davewiner__> that would save me some serious bucks!!
22:46:23< davewiner__> hey good idea
22:46:33< atonse> i'd like a tax holiday
22:46:36< zapATIsta> we are all on the same team. uh, hahahahahaha!
22:46:43< davewiner__> yeah a tax holiday
22:46:47< davewiner__> how about a tax rebate?
22:46:54< atonse> that too
22:46:54< davewiner__> give us all our taxes back for the summer
22:47:00< jdandrea> $30! $30! Everyone gets a check! Everyone gets - ahem.
22:47:03< davewiner__> i'd love that
22:47:03< atonse> hillary will make it happen... yes she can.... screw us.
22:47:07< adamrg> Hey, I've got an idea... let's just have the government build casinos, with hookers, and booze.  In fact, forget the casinos... free hookers and booze on the government. If you are going to pander, go all out!
22:47:11< amyloo> free cars for everybody, just like oprah. 
22:47:19< jdandrea> amyloo: bingo ;)
22:47:24< gustavo> I'd like a primary holiday, 4 years long, starting now.
22:47:29< atonse> hitlery! hitlery! hitlery!
22:47:31< davewiner__> i hope obama wins indiana
22:47:33< jdandrea> HA!
22:47:33< SeanO> My 4 year old just got to meet "Jiminey Cutter" (Jimmy Carter) tonight. And all I got to do is watch you all on IRC tonight. Oh Well, democracy for the next generation is alive and well.
22:47:34< davewiner__> praying
22:47:35< J> Earlier CNN reported on the number of republicans who admitted to voting for Clinton -- would that percentage erase the difference? 
22:47:37< zapATIsta> Bill's eyes say "makeup sex tonite..."
22:47:44< atonse> hahahahaha
22:47:52< zapATIsta> chelsea's eyes say "mom's fucking nuts"
22:47:55< davewiner__> we totally suck
22:47:58< davewiner__> we totally suck
22:48:00< davewiner__> we totally suck
22:48:02< jdandrea> zapATista: ROTFLMAO!
22:48:07< gustavo> "I will work for the nominee"
22:48:07< Lixoarte> lol
22:48:08< jdandrea> nucking futs!
22:48:10< gustavo> that's right you will
22:48:16< amyloo> Free 60" plasmas for the underprivileged, who's with me and who's against me?
22:48:22< jdandrea> Hey, quit co-opting Obama's cheer.
22:48:27< atonse> I call a secret veep deal.
22:48:30< davewiner__> 60 inch plasma or lcd?
22:48:34< adamrg> gustavo: I wonder if a verbal contract is binding in Indiana. :P
22:48:35< davewiner__> i like lcds better
22:48:38< zapATIsta> light, dark and medium blue is that family's color, ehhit?
22:48:40< jdandrea> It will be more of the same? Is that what I just heard?
22:48:43< atonse> LCD for sure
22:48:53< davewiner__> how about free Directv too
22:48:54< atonse> Vizio
22:48:56< davewiner__> for vets
22:49:00< jdandrea> Ah
22:49:02< atonse> only for the summer
22:49:04< davewiner__> bill looks tired
22:49:12< jdandrea> Let's count the blinks.
22:49:25< jdandrea> And the shifting of head weight from side to side. That's always fun.
22:49:26< SeanO> bill looks bored!
22:49:27< adamrg> Bill just keeps getting older, redder, and grayer.
22:49:44< amyloo> nobody has to go to work all summer, free amusement park rides just like in Pinochio
22:49:50< tmanternach> look how empty that place is
22:49:52< gustavo> DROP OUT ALREADY
22:49:58< tmanternach> can she not afford a bigger venue?
22:50:06< adamrg> jdandrea: Don't look directly into her eyes... please, for the love of all things holy... don't do it!
22:50:17< davewiner__> Morning Joe is going to be pretty interesting tomorrow
22:50:19< gustavo> "and this is why I'm withdrawing from the race"
22:50:35< gustavo> do iiiiiit
22:50:41< atonse> lol
22:50:56< atonse> that would make my heart skip a beat
22:51:01< zapATIsta> Hilary's concession speech date, too close to call
22:51:06< gustavo> I would SO throw a party on the spot
22:51:14< atonse> totally
22:51:24< gustavo> I'd like to thank the academy...
22:51:25< jdandrea> adamrg: bzzzzzzt. click - whirrr ... whoa, feeling ... dizzy ...
22:51:33< jdandrea> <thud>
22:51:50 * adamrg hopes jdandrea already voted
22:52:00-!- christophercarfi [n=chatzill@76-191-145-238.dyn.dsl.coastside.net] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary []
22:52:29< zapATIsta> oh mom, stop pointing at my breasts.
22:52:31< jsantel_> this is a good message... She just one-upped obama...
22:52:41< atonse> "we"
22:52:41< hilarytalbot> Micheleh in Twitter:  she's looney. Get the guys with the butterfly net .. lol
22:53:09< domesticat> Interesting that nowhere in this speech has she claimed victory in Indiana
22:53:22< davewiner__> she's going to oregon now
22:53:30< Lixoarte> *facedesk*
22:53:36< jsantel_> oregon is gonna be it...
22:53:40< SeanO> I'm transfixed by the interesting lady next to Chelsea with a button stuck to her forehead
22:54:13< gustavo> still not ready to cash that reality check
22:54:14< jdandrea> Whew. I'm back. (My wife was quick with the smelling salts.)
22:54:24-!- jerrybrito [n=jerrybri@c-68-34-56-204.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
22:54:37< zapATIsta> count the boats!
22:54:38< davewiner__> kiss my ass 
22:54:39< zapATIsta> count the boats!
22:54:41< davewiner__> kiss\ my ass
22:54:42< jdandrea> oh let it rock!
22:54:42< tmanternach> "count the votes".....the counted the fucking votes
22:54:43< zapATIsta> count the boats!
22:54:44< davewiner__> kiss my ass
22:54:51< tmanternach> you won...but they aren't seating the delegates
22:55:24< domesticat> A nominee chosen by 48 states ... a president chosen by the Supreme Court ... wait, this all seems vaguely familiar
22:55:29< tmanternach> wtf is she doing?
22:55:30< zapATIsta> dissidents and dreamers on every continent.
22:55:35< adamrg> I love the argument that when you make a deal, that it is your fault for not breaking the terms of said deal.  Way to go Hillary, that's a lesson for our chlidren.
22:55:35< zapATIsta> the reach of america's embrace
22:55:35< tmanternach> talking about 9/11....seriously?
22:55:42< zapATIsta> and I know we can once again be the can do nation.
22:55:44< adamrg> *children too
22:55:50< atonse>  ah
22:55:52< atonse> the 9/11 card.
22:55:59< gustavo> ok rudy
22:56:01< davewiner__> she's trying to imitate obama
22:56:05< atonse> yep
22:56:12< zapATIsta> a nation that defies the odds and greets the future with subprimes and enron style math and first quarter write offs
22:56:14< gustavo> yes we can do
22:56:17< atonse> ok did she just poach obama's speechwriter?
22:56:22< adamrg> Wait... I've been acting like an American the whole time... how dare she!
22:56:25< domesticat> I thought she was going to sing "The Greatest Love of All" for a moment
22:56:48< atonse> why does she still play john mellencamp when he's supporting Obama?
22:57:02< tmanternach> atonse: because he isn't supporting either
22:57:09< tmanternach> he sang for both of them
22:57:20< atonse> oh i thought he was touring with obama... no?
22:57:24< tmanternach> incorrect
22:57:26< atonse> never mind
22:57:45< amyloo> mellencamp played at rallies for both, oddly
22:57:46< zapATIsta> she doesn't look a day over 60 in blue
22:58:06< adamrg> atonse: Mellencamp is just a dem, and welcomed both to his state
22:58:28< atonse> ahhh ok... i probably confused him with someone else. damn.
22:58:48< amyloo> springsteen endorsed obama
22:58:57< J> atonse Look at Reagan, 1984 -- they had "Born in the USA" on their trail, but had never listened to the damn lyrics
22:59:01< amyloo> same cut of cloth, demo-wise
22:59:18< jdandrea> He's a dem? Y'know ... there is nothin' like a dem. Nothin' in the world.
22:59:23< atonse> did springsteen write a letter about it too?
22:59:43< zapATIsta> yeah, there was someone else's song she was using and they were supporting obama. was it neil young?
22:59:44< amyloo> yeah, he didn't make a speech, jsut the letter on his website
22:59:53< adamrg> Oh no, they're psychoanalyzing Chelsea Clinton on CNN now.
23:00:10< tmanternach> CNN went from "too early" to "too close"
23:01:42< zapATIsta> I really think she's staying in even if she loses by quite a bit because she's going to try and sue for states 49 and 50
23:01:52< adamrg> Occasionally I look back at this photo when I think things can't get any worse: http://www.flickr.com/photos/idlyadam/608063264/
23:03:00-!- ryan_i [n=ryan@cpe-069-134-211-094.nc.res.rr.com] has quit []
23:03:07< zapATIsta> tim thinks obama migt take indiana by a sliver
23:03:11< amyloo> russert says it could go either way
23:03:37< atonse> thanks adamrg. :(
23:03:37< SeanO> I want to see russert's chalkboard!
23:03:45< atonse> and that was just 2002. unbelievable
23:03:51< tmanternach> John King says he needs to win 58-60% of Lake County to win it
23:04:00< tmanternach> that's do-able
23:04:08< tmanternach> he took Marion County 66%
23:04:31< adamrg> dude... nail biter inc.
23:04:50< amyloo> lots of early voting up there, good sign for him, too, i think. campaign was really pushing ti
23:05:40< SeanO> I picture someone hovering over the enter key in the Lake County election office, just snickering.
23:06:16< adamrg> SeanO++
23:07:08< amyloo> if he wins, she's out by Friday, taking new wagers
23:09:21< jdandrea> Get 'em out by Friday!
23:13:52-!- mterenzio [n=systemma@ool-44c63e7e.dyn.optonline.net] has quit []
23:15:23-!- pjw [n=pjw@72.8.76.134] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
23:16:23< gustavo> nite folks
23:16:26-!- gustavo [n=ggddl@nat3.slide.com] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary []
23:20:30-!- domesticat [n=amy@12-202-221-200.client.mchsi.com] has quit []
23:23:14-!- ryan_i [n=ryan@cpe-069-134-211-094.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
23:26:10< tmanternach> What is wrong with counting absentee ballots BEFORE election day? this is a fucking disaster
23:27:16< SeanO> I hate to admit that I have a short attention span, but come on Marion County. Press the effing enter key!
23:27:43< SeanO> I need my beauty sleep!
23:29:30< tmanternach> SeanO: Marion county, no. Lake County
23:29:56< SeanO> Oh right. Lake County... like I said need beauty sleep ;-)
23:30:03< tmanternach> :)
23:30:35< adamrg> SeanO: you are beautiful just the way you are. :P
23:31:19-!- bmccaff [n=bmccaff@71-221-106-90.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
23:31:48< adamrg> I need results... find someone in Lake County, and send them in to get results using black bag methods.
23:32:04-!- christophercarfi [n=chatzill@76-191-145-238.dyn.dsl.coastside.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
23:32:12< tmanternach> adamrg: I fucking agree. This is getting ridiculous
23:32:24< adamrg> Lanny's spinning again.
23:32:32< adamrg> "He's happy, not bitter."
23:32:38< tmanternach> he's spinning so much his wig is going to fall off
23:32:50< SeanO> Lanny go home. you need beauty sleep too
23:33:11< adamrg> Lanny'd have to pull a rip van winkle to get "beautiful"
23:34:04< jdandrea> Nite all ... nytol ...
23:34:30< J> streaming MSNBC -- Matthews is talking veep for Hillary
23:34:33< tmanternach> jdandrea: see ya
23:34:35-!- vtbtucker [n=btucker@pool-72-95-172-166.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
23:34:47< SeanO> jdandrea: gnite
23:35:22-!- hilarytalbot [n=chatzill@203-173-5-25.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.82 [Firefox 2.0.0.14/2008040413]"]
23:35:52< manton> J: Not watching... Care to share what he is saying?
23:36:13< manton> I've been saying for a month that a joint ticket is the best way to unite the party. Hope it happens.
23:36:20< SeanO> conflicting reports that absentee ballots are being counted by chimpanzees
23:36:24-!- jdandrea [n=jdandrea@ool-44c09c49.dyn.optonline.net] has quit ["ciao"]
23:36:34-!- bmccaff [n=bmccaff@71-221-106-90.clsp.qwest.net] has quit []
23:36:46< tmanternach> again, why do they wait until election day to count absentee ballots?
23:37:00< manton> tmanternach: Because no one should have that information until everyone else has voted.
23:37:03< manton> ?
23:37:23< manton> Usually the absentee results come in immediately, though. Hmm.
23:37:27< tmanternach> that's ridiculous
23:37:30< SeanO> All right, all I've got is snark left in me. Better get while the gettin's good. Night all!
23:37:33< J> I caught it part-way through, but he was asking why she would continue on, and how that positioned her for vice president.  The take-away was that it shows she finishes what she started and will try to make the best of it, and that she'll galvanize older women and less-educated whites under Obama
23:37:36< tmanternach> ya, they could have started counting them this morning
23:37:53-!- SeanO [n=SeanO@c-98-210-125-249.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary []
23:37:57< manton> J: Thanks.
23:38:08-!- mterenzio [n=systemma@ool-44c63e7e.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
23:38:09-!- atonse [n=ashish@c-24-125-33-217.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary []
23:38:47-!- bmccaff [n=chatzill@71-221-106-90.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
23:38:50< J> So if Obama wins Gary and that county, that may put him over; if he ends up winning Indiana, bets on if that's the race?
23:39:18< tmanternach> J: according to hillary tonight, that is indeed the tie breaker
23:39:22< tmanternach> she repeated Obama's words
23:40:25< tmanternach> I kinda wish they would just call this for Hillary, so I can move on
23:40:40< tmanternach> but I'm still hoping he can pull through in Lake County
23:40:44< GabeW> why won't they call it?
23:40:50< tmanternach> too close
23:40:58< tmanternach> 1 county left, 0% reporting there
23:41:05< tmanternach> 2nd largest county in the state
23:43:19-!- mterenzio [n=systemma@ool-44c63e7e.dyn.optonline.net] has left #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary []
23:43:57< J> They're talking about Rush Limbaugh's operation chaos being the margin of difference for Hillary in Indiana (they being Matthews and company)
23:45:18< tmanternach> FUCK YES
23:45:22< tmanternach> it's happening
23:45:27< tmanternach> 28% of the vote in
23:45:29< GabeW> whoa, 17000
23:45:35< GabeW> 19,790
23:45:40< tmanternach> WOAH
23:45:46< manton> Oh my.
23:45:55< J> twitter's dead again, methings
23:45:56-!- PENlS [n=ronpaul@wnpgmb014uw-ad04-168-163.dynamic.mts.net] has joined #indiananorthcarolinaprimary
23:45:57< GabeW> yah, there's no way hillary is going to claim this a victory
23:46:00< GabeW> yah
23:46:01< J> we're under 2% difference
23:46:06< J> Lake County still coming in 
23:46:08< tmanternach> holy shit! this is awesome
23:46:16< J> Matthews just scolded Limbaugh
23:47:23< adamrg> http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/05/06/gary_mayor_predicts_possible_i.html -- Gary Mayor makes predictions of an obama win
23:47:52< GabeW> wow, in any case, its gonna be within 1%
23:47:55< tmanternach> this could be the best night ever
23:47:56< GabeW> most likely
23:47:56< J> Matthews' barb against Limbaugh was pretty good -- he contextualized it well, saying how many people/soldiers he Limbaugh have championed to die for our political process, and he then steps in to thwart that process
23:48:29< J> davewiner_: did you break twitter again?
23:48:50< J> nope, it's back
23:52:01-!- JimRoepcke [n=jim@S01060016cbc33f52.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #indianaNorthCarolinaPrimary
23:53:26< J> Lake County is breaking 75-25 for Obama
23:53:47-!- PENlS [n=ronpaul@wnpgmb014uw-ad04-168-163.dynamic.mts.net] has quit ["PENIS"]
23:53:59< ryan_i> Clinton cancels appearances on tomorrow's morning shows. Interesting.
23:54:35< adamrg> awww
23:57:29< Lixoarte> VERY interesting indeed.
23:57:50-!- bmccaff [n=chatzill@71-221-106-90.clsp.qwest.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.82 [Firefox 3.0b5/2008032619]"]
23:58:10< ryan_i> "First results reported in Lake County, 75%-25% for Obama with 28% reporting. If he maintains that margin in Lake County he wins the state. But it all depends where in the county those results are from."
23:58:23< ryan_i> http://xrl.us/bj8vm
23:59:26-!- christophercarfi [n=chatzill@76-191-145-238.dyn.dsl.coastside.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
--- Log closed Wed May 07 00:00:03 2008