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Are individuals naturally good or evil?

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Expand view Topic review: Are individuals naturally good or evil?

Re: Are individuals naturally good or evil?

Post by Yarrow » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:17 am

terribly concise there, young zazaban.

pimms on the balcony, what ho?

Re: Are individuals naturally good or evil?

Post by Zazaban » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:22 am

Good and evil are fluid human constructs so the question itself is a non sequiter.

Re: Are individuals naturally good or evil?

Post by Yarrow » Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:07 am

thought i'd bump this, it was good. yum

Re: Are individuals naturally good or evil?

Post by Saturnine » Fri Aug 07, 2009 11:49 pm

Blank slate.

No one is born good nor evil. We gain these so called traits through our environment and surroundings.

Re: Are individuals naturally good or evil?

Post by Yarrow » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:51 am

i guess, at base, it's all about perception. if i want to treat all flies as equals, i'll still be crushing the grass when i walk. but the ecosystem benefits from that... being a vege, i learnt very quickly that asking these sort of questions does nothing but fire up your internal monolog. i don't think it's worth it, in fact i think it's worth trying to live OUTSIDE of your head. perhaps a bit of the old community enrichment.

Re: Are individuals naturally good or evil?

Post by VanDoodah » Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:28 pm

I'm not entirely sure just how meaningful discussions about human nature are. It (human nature) seems to me to be a scientific question (unless one happens to be religious, in which case one will regard it as a theological one), and science hasn't really told us a great deal about human nature yet. And, of course, in order to claim that human beings are generally good (or evil, for that matter), then one has to get into a massive discussion about the nature of morality, as well as bear the burden of proof required with such a claim.

Whatever morality is, I believe that it is innate. It was long thought, especially by empiricists like John Locke and David Hume, that human beings are born with blank minds - tabula rasa - and that therefore there is no human nature deeper than the physio-biological traits we share. Of course, most people have now rejected that extreme empiricist view, thanks to advances in modern science. Noam Chomsky, for example, has proven that human beings have an innate capacity for language, that different languages differ in their formats and constructions only slightly, and that the differences between different languages are learned at an early age. Well, I believe that morality is an evolutionary phenomenon, and that it is something innate within us all. For example, the vast majority of human beings would agree that the proposition "Raping babies is wrong". When questioned why, they would simply state that it is obvious. I think morality consists of various truisms, but because it is not an axiom system, moral values can sometimes conflict. Also, certain learned morals - religious morals, for example - can account for some of the moral debates of our time.

I also think that most issues which are generally regarded as moral issues are actually factual issues. Take, for example, the debate about abortion. Some people argue that life is given by God at the moment of conception, and that therefore we have no right to intervene and take that life. However, other people, especially non-religious people, argue that life doesn't begin at the moment of conception, that the fetus is entirely reliant on the mother and that a woman should be sovereign over her own body. This reinforces my earlier point that morality is not an axiom system. Here one can see perhaps two things: one is a clash of values; namely, female sovereignty versus the fetus' right to life. But the major issue is the fact that both sides - both pro-life and pro-choice - make factual presumptions that the other side doesn't accept. What is really at stake in many supposedly moral issues - such as the nature of humanity and abortion - are the factual presumptions underlying each argument. I think that it is important to realise that many moral issues arise simply because of a different approach to the facts, or pseudo-facts, in many cases.

With regards to human nature, I do not believe that we have enough scientific knowledge to understand it just yet, and maybe we never will. On the one hand, one can see violence, authoritarianism, hatred etc - just look at Nazi Germany. But on the other hand, one can see peace, solidarity, a will to help humanity progress - just look at Martin Luther King Junior, Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela etc. So, it depends where you look, but I think that either argument (for or against man's innately good nature) must rely on a selective use and slanted interpretation of what evidence we have. Plus, the evidence would be almost exclusively sociological, and sociology is not exactly a precise science.

Maybe the atheistic existentialists are right, and, as Sartre put it, "Man is nothing else but that which he makes of himself".

Re: Are individuals naturally good or evil?

Post by African_Prince » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:55 am

Neither, we are born with a capacity for compassion or cruelty/apathy. Culture and environment will determine which side we lean more towards.

As negative as it sounds, I regard most of the humans I come across as trash.

Re: Are individuals naturally good or evil?

Post by patrickhenry » Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:16 pm

but both are merely human concepts, and neither really exists. methinks.

so i don't think you need to have both balanced- a human may be purely 'good' and successful.


If you take the approach that good and evil doesn't really exist and there only human concepts then logically you must say humanity throughout history has evolved with a majority. Certain actions and reactions that affect humanity in ways they either find pleasing or not so pleasing. I would then assume through linguistics they came to call these actions and reactions "good and evil" or "positive and negative" ie.you have a caveman and he sees fire for the first time, the fire is neither good nor evil its just fire. Caveman approachs fire and feels warmth both of which are received as "positive" or "good".This clear distinction provides him with natural instincts to survive. When the caveman puts his hand to the fire again a chemical reaction occurs which is "negative" or "evil" because it burns and could harm him. I assume this is where your concepts originated.

On the other hand you could not have a human who is either all good or all evil by your standards. Positive cannot exist without Negative and vice versa.

Re: Are individuals naturally good or evil?

Post by Yarrow » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:49 am

but both are merely human concepts, and neither really exists. methinks.

so i don't think you need to have both balanced- a human may be purely 'good' and successful.

Re: Are individuals naturally good or evil?

Post by patrickhenry » Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:52 pm

without evil, good wouldn't exist and without good you wouldn't have evil. they are both harmonies to human development. I imagine a human like ying and yang. you need both to be balanced.

Re: Are individuals naturally good or evil?

Post by scarydreams » Fri Jul 17, 2009 4:24 pm

let me correct that.

what people *think* passes for human nature is greatly dictated by social conditions.

Re: Are individuals naturally good or evil?

Post by Francois Tremblay » Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:10 pm

If it's molded by exterior determinisms, then it's not a nature.

Re: Are individuals naturally good or evil?

Post by Guest » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:34 pm

human nature is greatly dictated by the social conditions around it.

i.e.
if you grow up and participate in a community that finds homosexuality repulsive and sinfull, then the natural feeling would seem to be one of revulsion and not acceptance.

Re: Are individuals naturally good or evil?

Post by Zazaban » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:43 pm

leadhead wrote:
Insecuritykiller wrote:Why not torture small children then?

I have to believe that i'll be rewarded or punished. I'm not a christian, but i dont know, i'd like to think i'd be rewarded in "heaven" for the good shit i do.



You have to live with yourself every day. I cant think of anything more equalizing than that.

A psychopath wouldn't really give a damn.

Re: Are individuals naturally good or evil?

Post by leadhead » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:15 pm

Insecuritykiller wrote:Why not torture small children then?

I have to believe that i'll be rewarded or punished. I'm not a christian, but i dont know, i'd like to think i'd be rewarded in "heaven" for the good shit i do.



You have to live with yourself every day. I cant think of anything more equalizing than that.

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