Young Gay Peeps

[Guest]

Should young gay peeps organise in order to attempt to provide an alternative supportive environment to the capitalist gay scene? I'm thinking specifically in terms of young people who have only recently come out of the closet. If anyone has any ideas, could they post them please - because I think this is a good idea, and could really help a lot of people, but don't know where to start or what to do. [img]/wwwthreads/images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

[Rekyl]

I know this is a very late reply and I hope that you read it and that it finds you in good health; <br> <br>Well personally I think that with coming out theres so many other issues to deal with besides Anarchism that it may be troublesome to not only have to accept your own sexuality but also try to "work it into" politics. <br> <br>Then I must admit that I see very little of the "capitalist gay scene" except for the odd "Extravagance men" that keeps bumming around gaybars. You know, the ones that wants to show an air of luxury about them no matter what it would cost to another... <br> <br>Coming out of the closet is one of those actions that is accordiong to me the most brave. Theres is nothing so nerve wrecking like talleing your closest friend that your gay or bi-, not knowing if he or she will rteject you for what you are. Its even worse when it comes to parents who, no matter how old someone will get will always have an important part in our lives. This act, to "come out" is usually also very shocking to ones personality since you suddenly become aware of a part of the sexual repression that is common in our current society. You suddenly learn that just because someone dislike the way he "thinks" you and your partner is doing when your alone, he or she can fire you, insult you or even kill you... All for the sake of something that doesnt really concerning him or her. <br> <br>One could do well in making it obvious to young homosexual and bi- people that there are others that see past the fact that they dont share them same gender interests and are just happy that they fall in love, not caring who they fall in love with and what gender heo or she is. That not all of humanity wants to repress them but I think one should let politics be a far behind second in this situation, let it come in later. <br> <br>Just making a group that help H/B/T (Homosexual/Bisexual/Transexual) young people and especially teens, cope with the emotions they are feeling, would do allot. A group that isnt H/B/T exclusive but more "H/B/T-friendly"... <br> <br>If that group is then based around Anarchist ideas of how an organisation is to be run, then thats even better... <br> <br>What Im trying to say, that when it comes to support, let the support come first and the politics come second. <br> <br>rekyl.

[TrollE]

http://www.gayshamesf.org/home.htm

[disease_of_ease]

There's already a lot of organization going on of this nature. Not so much for young people, but it's harder to mobilize young people in general for various reasons. <br> <br>My suggestion, if you want to get involved in this I *highly* recommend the internet as your space to build a community. A lot of young queers don't feel comfortable or safe being public about their sexuality and the net is a good place to feel secure. You might try looking on the web for something like this already. If you don't find anything that suits you or lets you take a part in, you might at least be able to find others who you can collaborate with. <br> <br>Unfortunately, this doesn't mean much for kids who don't have access to the web, but doesn't seem to be an issue for you. If you want to reach this group, you might be able to enlist the help of local gay organizations in putting something together... what that "something" is would be up to you I suppose. I think that if you're gay yourself you should just draw on your own experience for inspiration. <br> <br>I would also remind you that any attempt to even DISCUSS gay issues among teenagers in America is not going to be looked at favorably by some. Sadly, a part of my family still believes that homosexuality is Satan's doing, and that all gays are interested in corrupting young people to their decadent lifestyle. So I would also suggest you be prepared for a backlash if you're an American, because I can guarantee you it's inevitable.

[Kropotkitten]

I know exactly what you are talking about in terms of the capitalist gay scene- this is such a problem in bigger cities where we find ourselves given the entitlement to take up more space, but on the terms that we are consumers and not community members- as with everyone.
Being an anti-capitalist queer can be quite troubling because many anti-capitalist scenes are super hetero, even if they make occasional attempts to support us, but also because yuppie white gays can be really boring and really defensive about their own privileges and visions of what 'gay liberation' means...
The problem with the internet too is that lots of us don't have access to it, so it can't be the be all end all of anti-capitalist queer organizing, that being said though, it is a start. Also, posting stuff in the anticapitalist community for queer-based organizing, even if its really small at first, like a zine or stickering or something, can sometimes build something, or at least that's what I've found.

[tedster]

I used to notice that the queer parades used to be less commercialized. but now I want have anything to do with them, because now it is all about corporate shit.

[|Y|]

This is one reason I don't care about the whole gay marriage thing. Homosexuals, in America at least, are their own upper class. They're the only minotiries with wealthy parts of town solely segregated from the rest, and exclusive only to homosexuals. While of course this doesn't represent all homosexuals, it is a way that capitalism has taken advantage of the lifestyle in that way.

[tedster]

Gay marraige I do have mixed feelings about. Obviously as an anarchist, I do feel that neither church nor state should have anything to do with the relationship. But as it currently stands now, because I am denied marraige, I am at the wims of what I heard is some were over 700 rules (sorry I cant say were I got that from) that are affected because of my denial of marraige.

[Yuda]

Myself and my partner are planning a civil union next year, we would never consider the marrage option she's from a quasi-catholic background and I'm third generation atheist, we could not bring ourselves to celebrate our partnership with such a conservative religous institution

[Kropotkitten]

This is one reason I don't care about the whole gay marriage thing. Homosexuals, in America at least, are their own upper class.

Is this a careless wording or are you truly that blind? The misconception that all queers are wealthy is tantamount to the idea that all black people are like Oprah. Yes, our reality is distorted by the media, largely because of polls taken by marketing firms. Basically, polls are taken in high end gay magazines and then projected on the rest of us, yet polls outside high end gay magazines show that gay men make about 27% less than straight men, while lesbians are a little lower than straight women, who already make less anyway. When you add other factors [like the fact that queers are also people of color, people with disabilities etc] plenty of us are marginalized aplenty. The white gay male upper class [where i come from every queer person with money and power is a white man] is no more a representation of our community as the Fresh Prince of Bel Air is of black communities. The idea that 'homosexuals are their own upper class' is one spouted by the religious right.

There is only 1 practical use of marriage to me: seeing partners in the hospital. In the era of AIDS it is often forgotten by the rest that we aren't allowed to see our lovers in the hospital, ride with them in ambulances etc, because we can't get married to them. I know queers who only want the right to marry for this reason, though obviously the real solution would be to change hospital protocol.

Marriage of course, is otherwise not worth a shit, not only because it enshrines love as a piece of property, but because we shouldn't have to be partnered to receive medical benefits or a pension...

[Kropotkitten]

This is one reason I don't care about the whole gay marriage thing. Homosexuals, in America at least, are their own upper class.

Is this a careless wording or are you truly that blind? The misconception that all queers are wealthy is tantamount to the idea that all black people are like Oprah. Yes, our reality is distorted by the media, largely because of polls taken by marketing firms. Basically, polls are taken in high end gay magazines and then projected on the rest of us, yet polls outside high end gay magazines show that gay men make about 27% less than straight men, while lesbians are a little lower than straight women, who already make less anyway. When you add other factors [like the fact that queers are also people of color, people with disabilities etc] plenty of us are marginalized aplenty. The white gay male upper class [where i come from every queer person with money and power is a white man] is no more a representation of our community as the Fresh Prince of Bel Air is of black communities. The idea that 'homosexuals are their own upper class' is one spouted by the religious right.

There is only 1 practical use of marriage to me: seeing partners in the hospital. In the era of AIDS it is often forgotten by the rest that we aren't allowed to see our lovers in the hospital, ride with them in ambulances etc, because we can't get married to them. I know queers who only want the right to marry for this reason, though obviously the real solution would be to change hospital protocol.

Marriage of course, is otherwise not worth a shit, not only because it enshrines love as a piece of property, but because we shouldn't have to be partnered to receive medical benefits or a pension...

[|Y|]

Careless wording? Or perhaps you were exhibiting careless quoting? You left out the last sentence somewhat intentionally, no? Of course not all gay people are rich or wealthy. And I never once said that or implied that.

However, how many minorities have their own villages in upper class areas of towns with high levels of consumerism? Gay villages are responsible for significant gentrification in US cities. Gay consumerism is one of capitalisms most recent fad (metrosexuality, being a really novel way to get straight men to "be gay" while profiting the corporations quite a bit).

While most homosexuals may not be 'supported' by the "white male gays" who 'run' these areas, they will invariably have a place to go and be accepted and have options. Much like how white people can "do better" in the northeast, black people in the south, and latinos in the southwest. Only for the black people and latinos, their option isn't the ability to go to whole parts of cities supported by significant wealth distribution. You go to any gay town and measure the relative wealth distribution, and you go to any latino or black town and do the same.

I guarantee you that they will come out on top. Every time.

[tedster]

There is a pretty fucked up exploitation of capitalism. Miller Beer ads to Wells Fargo Bank. But they don't give a shit about gay people as long they can sell their product. I am not suprrised that gay men make only 27% of what there heterosexual counterparts make. I am glad that I don't have the children that I would have been financially been responsible for especially since I myself have been struggling.

[Kropotkitten]

I don't call is careless quoting because the fact that there are gentrified gay neighborhoods does not mean that WE ARE ALL OUR OWN UPPER CLASS, nor does a commercialized gayborhood justify such a BROAD statement. Nor do many of us have a place in the gentrified gayborhoods you speak of. If you examine the work of Patrick Califia or the book 'Homo Economics' you'll see that lots of us have no place there, and lots of us refuse to support homocapitalists. We spend enough time arguing with the gay sellouts that we don't need to see our entire community tarred with the same brush as the fuckers on Queer as Folk. It reminds me of when people say that the black community is homophobic- thats a broad generalization that feeds into myths that have nothing to do with reality and its insulting.

Also, what's with the complaint about how we're the only minority who have this piece of power. First of all, only a small percentage of queers only have it, and secondly, it feels like a veiled attempt to discount the fact that we are oppressed.

[trueness]

Gays, lesbians, and bisexuals aren't as popular as scapegoats as they used to be. So, the capitalist class finds another way to use them by encouraging consumerism. They know homophobia is decreasing and gay and bi people are getting rights. Naturally, they find a way to make sure that even when they lose they win that's why they're promoting commercialization of gay culture.

As for that gay shame website the whole "be a bitch" thing is actually conformist. They're telling gay men to act more effeminate. While, I don't think gay men or any men should make an effort to act masculine I think it's equally alienating to make an effort to be effeminate. Gender norms are socially constructed. By making an effort either way you are acknowledging them. Just be yourself and do what ever comes naturally.

Me, personally I'm a bi male that most people would call masculine. Most people think I'm straight until I tell them. Do I make an effort to be masculine or seem straight? No. The way I am just happens to correspond with some of society's notions of the way straight men act.