White Middle-Class Males

[perpetuality]

[color=green]I used to think the same way you did, that people should be against all oppression and not label oppression differently. Nowadays though, I think it's healthy to acknowledge the type of exploitation taking place (racism for instance) and just call it _Black_ Power.</font color=green> <br> <br>I think you defined my view very well, and I guess I haven't reached the same point in thought about oppression as you have. Also, all racism is not directed against blacks. Most of the prejudice where I am is directed at either the homeless, families of low income, or people wearing strange clothing (all completely non-dependent on race.)

[Aaron]

[color=green]Another way I get over fears about "black power" is just to think of it as black empowerment.</font color=green> <br> <br>Then call it black empowerment. Power and empowerment are two very different things, in my opinion. <br>

[Morpheus]

If it was called black empowerment it would also be twisted around into the same white supremacist nonsense about Blacks dominating whites, etc just as the racists do with black power. This fear of whites has been around since at least slavery. One common arguement in favor of slavery was that getting rid of it would lead to "nigger domination" with Blacks dominating and oppressing whites. Abolitionists were accused of being reverse racists, trying to oppress the white man, etc. This kind of racist nonsense continues to this day. Besides, Black Power is a catchier slogan. Black power = black emPOWERment

[Guest]

why should it be so hard for working class males to give up violence? It seems that those preoccupied with violence would rather hold to the illusion that we live in a land of oppurtunity then devote themselves to anarchist revolution... likewise middle class white males are plagued by cultural inadequacy issues, "I grew up in the privilege of society, so being a believable detractor from it is impossible." These are things that society has taught us, these are the wounds in the side of revolution. healing them will be the first step. maybe the only step necessary to overcome a society that pressures people to reinforce the status quo. <br> <br> Zapata's father died when he was 18 leaving him to fight for himself and his family. Kropotkin could be described at least as a "middle class white male." It is the choices you make as you lead your life that transcend all background and ethnicity. This is more important than the slant in history books. books that describe the CNT as republican, and John F Kennedy as a great man. The decisions you make in your own life right now as a human being are more important than where you come from or what ever other system that may have indoctrinated you into inaction, be it education or lack of. Television or lack of. The constant search to overcome boredom, or the constant search to rest. <br> Perhaps all these things may be overcome when we are free of a system that allows to work an inessential job or starve. This system raises us to be unique and then shows that conformity is more important than dreams. <br> Will anyone honestly turn away an ally due to class distinction? that's not anarchy to me. <br> If you talk to most people these days, we're losing the fight. People are raised into compliance. They will tell you that anarchy would never work, because their whole lives they've been taught that the powerful prey on the weak yet refuse to see that this is the way it is now. Whether you're angry because there's no warm place to sleep, or angry because there's too much pollution and war due to imperialism. You're really angry about the same thing, and that's INEQUALITY. <br> <br>"to want to change something is to hate it, to change it is to love it" Che

[Aaron]

[color=green]If it was called black empowerment it would also be twisted around into the same white supremacist nonsense about Blacks dominating whites</font color=green> <br> <br>Of course it would; white supremacists are highly ignorant people. The average white person, however, is not. The average anarchist white person is certainly not. Black empowerment is wholly more inclusive and appealing to non-blacks than simply "black power." I know that many who support the cause of black empowerment do not believe that it should matter what whites and non-blacks think, but the fact is that you can't deal with white supremacy without dealing with white people. <br> <br>As an anarchist, I oppose "black power" just as I oppose "white power," "worker power," and, of course, "state power." Power is the same across the board, and I don't seek its consolidation in the hands of the few. Power to "the people" is perhaps the only one I find supportable, but I would much rather support empowerment for all people. <br> <br>[color=green]This fear of whites has been around since at least slavery. </font color=green> <br> <br>For different reasons. Slavery, as we know it, has been abolished in the United States for almost 150 years, and no one is alive today who has experienced or remembers it. Unlike the average white person of 150+ years ago, I don't fear "nigger domination." I fear domination. I don't care who's oppressing me.

[Guest]

maybe this goes back to an initial issue in this forum.... in our society, the middle class male is generally not regarded as oppressed... And if your ambition is to live in debt, send your children to college that you'll have to work twice as hard at your own job to pay for, retire at age 70 with an unsatisfied existence and contemptible outlook towards the future... then I guess middle class males aren't oppressed..... <br> I suppose its definitely certain devices within society that make race and class boundaries hold up progress away from oppression. Herbert Marcuse said in One Dimensional Man in 1964 "The negro(sic) driving a cadillac does not flaunt society, yet reaffirms it." "Society" not meaning White Middle Class Society, or Rural African American Society, but Society as a whole. We act in ways that make these distinctions known and complain when they're realized by people who are in positions to criticize them. <br> Perhaps the next possible appilication of Marcuse's statement is to the bouergouis anarchist?

[Morpheus]

[color=blue]white supremacists are highly ignorant people. The average white person, however, is not.</font color=blue> <br> <br>94% of white people are. See http://www.illegalvoices.org/apoc/knowledge/articles/ideas/wise-why.html <br> <br>[color=blue]Black empowerment is wholly more inclusive and appealing to non-blacks than simply "black power."</font color=blue> <br> <br>You mean appealing to white people. That is because the average white person is indoctrinated with a lot of white supremacist propaganda. Black power means black empowerment, they are the samething. That is what is meant by the slogan. Interpreting it to mean anything else is a distortion of the idea, just as interpreting anarchy as choas is a distortion of anarchism. If "black empowerment" was used instead then the white supremacists would use similar propaganda to distort it, just as they have distorted black power, and you'd be opposed to it just as you are opposed to black power. <br> <br>"Black power" in the present society means dispersing it and making it more equal, not concentrating it in the hands of the few. Blacks have less power in this society, by giving blacks more power we move towards a society based on equality of power. Power is not the same across the board, some people have more power than others.

[Aaron]

[color=green]You mean appealing to white people.</font color=green> <br> <br>Well, yes, of course. It would be rather difficult to end white privilege or racism without the active involvement of whites. <br> <br>[color=green]That is because the average white person is indoctrinated with a lot of white supremacist propaganda.</font color=green> <br> <br>This is true. <br> <br>[color=green]Black power means black empowerment, they are the samething.</font color=green> <br> <br>Like anarchism and capitalism? While it may be the same thing to you, it isn't to me, just like how the people over at ASC view anarchism and capitalism as going hand-in-hand. <br> <br>[color=green]Interpreting it to mean anything else is a distortion of the idea, just as interpreting anarchy as choas is a distortion of anarchism</font color=green> <br> <br>Again, these are the same kind of arguments a cap would use against you or me. What you view as distortion I view as an important semantical argument. Power and empowerment are two words with two distinct meanings. <br> <br>[color=green]If "black empowerment" was used instead then the white supremacists would use similar propaganda to distort it, just as they have distorted black power, and you'd be opposed to it just as you are opposed to black power.</font color=green> <br> <br>This is presupposing that my views on black power have anything to do with white supremacist propaganda. Dissenting from the majority opinion might simply imply a difference of opinion as opposed to a hapless victim of indoctrination. Too often do I witness fellow anarchists label voices of dissent as being the voices of the ignorant, when, in fact, some of them are merely alternative viewpoints that should be equally respected. <br> <br>Only by the basis of my anarchist beliefs do I oppose the concept of "black power."

[guest]

"Also, the m/class anarchos are more likely to have a hang-up about violence coz amongst their largely m/class friends, they have the privilege to be pacifists "

i actually think that alot of my middle class anarchist friends have this over-zealous fascination with violence:riot porn, cop killing fantasies, etc. etc. i grew up in neighborhoods where disputes frequently led to violence, where fights and domestic abuse were all too common. frankly i'm sick of violence and am more interested in non-violent means of solving problems. it seems to me its more of a privilege to be pro-violence when you didn't grow up around it and have an idealized view of it.

[Jawn Disease]

The wealthy elite are so extremely wealthy that the difference between someone making 60 k a year (or even 100 k) and somebody making 30 k a year is completely negligible. Yo David Beckham signed a contract for fuckin 250 million. In the West the middle class and the working class are the same thing.The boundary between them is not permanent, it's open, it's just an income level and nothing else. Culturally the middle and working classes are very similar and very mixed. People from working class families found new households, excel at something or get lucky in the ratrace and magically turn into middle class citizens... and then their deadbeat kid drops out and drinks whiskey and does contract work on peoples' porches for 20 years and he's working class now. Its not as if people growing up with a mom on welfare can't ever live in a house with a lawn and a garage and work as a manager of a computer parts firm...

Anyways.