White Middle-Class Males

[Aaron]

[color=green]What about a white family living in a black neighbourhood?... Racism works both ways. All ways.</font color=green> <br> <br> <br>I agree. Although I recognize white privilege, I don't ignore the fact that racism goes both ways. I don't support "black power" movements, just as I don't support "white power" movements; power shouldn't be based on race. There's a difference between seeking power and seeking empowerment.

[Man]

Yeh. <br> <br>I fear the sox. <br> <br>And the Pantz and also the vestz and the frox

[Aaron]

[color=green]I fear the sox.</font color=green> <br> <br>Alas, my friend, you should not. For, the Sox are your friends. Only the foolish infidels who claim the audacity to challenge our divine right to the championship of the World Series need fear us, for our wrath shall be great.

[Morpheus]

Prejudice goes both ways. Racism = pejudice + power. That doesn't go both ways because power is in the hands of one group. There's a big difference between the oppressed hating the privledged and the privledged hating the oppressed.

[Guest]

sigh, a white family in a black neighborhood still has white priv. <br> <br>cops will still treat them differently. <br>banks will treat them differently. <br>employers will treat them differently. <br>landlords will treat them differently. <br> <br>race is a social construct, and that construct is white supremacy, and it manifests itself when the idea of white supremacy is held and acted upon by a person, persons, or institutions with power. <br> <br>simply put, we need to abolish white supremacy. yes, there are other supremacies, but, with certain exceptions, they are not acting in concert with power which is what constitues racism. (notable exceptions include khazar supremacy aka zionism and han supremacy in china.) <br> <br>furthermore, the oakland a's rule you. <br> <br>

[Guest]

[color=purple]a white family in a black neighborhood still has white priv <br> <br>cops will still treat them differently</font color=purple> <br> <br>sigh...my dearest comrade zach would get a chuckle here if he were still in the land of the living (rat-race related mortality - not cop related mortality). not that they didn't try. white he was, and the st. louis cops who kicked the crap out of him were white too. his crime - gutterpunk. though i'll not argue that 'race' is never an issue with cops, more often these days 'class' is where they make distinctions. <br> <br>[color=purple]banks will treat them differently.</font color=purple> <br> <br>as there are significant gaps in my employment history and having never had a credit card, banks don't care much for me even tho i am white. where's my supremacy? <br> <br>[color=purple]employers will treat them differently. landlords will treat them differently.</font color=purple> <br> <br>are all employers and landlords white? <br> <br> <br> <br>

[Man]

Well. <br> <br>I think Rainy said it all. <br> <br>I think the world is more fluid and that some generalisations are being made, but no mind... <br> <br>We seem to think that power is only that which is institutionalised. This is not power, it is only a part of it. Black people or white people sticking together is still security seeking, power-seeking... just because they are not in Congress does not stop it being an act of power. Really, it is exactly the same thing. Some people just have more power than others due to the social relationships that we have created... <br> <br>We don't need to abolish white supremacy, we need to stop imagining there is such a thing as supremacy altogether... <br> <br>And... yet... there still is that power in overcoming the self...

[Aaron]

I pretty much agree with Raindog's sentiments. <br> <br>[color=green]we need to abolish white supremacy.</font color=green> <br> <br>We also need to abolish white guilt, for that matter. It appears to be one of the most counteractive forces in the fight against racism. White people need to realize that giving up their supremacy does not mean giving it to someone else - and people of color should support that concept, too. If the idea of "black power" and other such things frightens white people, it's for the same reasons that "white power" frightens others.

[Morpheus]

[color=blue]sigh...my dearest comrade zach would get a chuckle here if he were still in the land of the living (rat-race related mortality - not cop related mortality). not that they didn't try. white he was, and the st. louis cops who kicked the crap out of him were white too. his crime - gutterpunk. though i'll not argue that 'race' is never an issue with cops, more often these days 'class' is where they make distinctions. </font color=blue> <br> <br>http://www.tao.ca/~lemming/abr/racism.htm <br>http://www.tao.ca/~lemming/abr/racism2.htm <br> <br>[color=blue]as there are significant gaps in my employment history and having never had a credit card, banks don't care much for me even tho i am white. where's my supremacy? </font color=blue> <br> <br>A black person in your situation would be treated even worse. In addition, black people are more likely to end up in your situation than white people. <br> <br>[color=blue]are all employers and landlords white?</font color=blue> <br> <br>No, but a disproportionate amount are. <br> <br>The reason slogals like "black power" freak out so many whites is because most whites are closet white supremacists who want blacks to remain powerless.

[Aaron]

[color=green]The reason slogals like "black power" freak out so many whites is because most whites are closet white supremacists who want blacks to remain powerless.</font color=green> <br> <br>You sound just like chiggins did when he called you a closet Marxist. Just as your opposition to capitalism does not make you a Marxist, my opposition to the concept of race and black separitism does not make me a white supremacist. Tell me what is racist about wanting to abolish race, and I'll tell you what's authoritarian about wanting to abolish authoritarianism.

[perpetuality]

[color=green]The reason slogals like "black power" freak out so many whites is because most whites are closet white supremacists who want blacks to remain powerless.</font color=green> <br> <br>Or maybe they would rather have People Power or World Power or Life Power. No reason to divide it up. <br>I personally don't believe in power at all, so I'm automatically opposed to the slogan. Power is a tool of coercion in the hands of those who aspire to conquer, own, and manipulate. To exist is not to demand power; especially when you declare a limited amount, things can get pretty imperialistic there.

[Man]

Power only exists in our minds...

[Pomegranate]

so, when the black panthers decided to defend their own neighborhoods against the police using guns, yelling "black power" and "power to the people," you think that's a form of totalitarianism? <br> <br>i think we all need that type of power. <br>

[disease_of_ease]

People ask for power when power has been taken away. That is the WHOLE premise upon which black power is built. I used to think the same way you did, that people should be against all oppression and not label oppression differently. Nowadays though, I think it's healthy to acknowledge the type of exploitation taking place (racism for instance) and just call it _Black_ Power. <br> <br>Another way I get over fears about "black power" is just to think of it as black empowerment.

[perpetuality]

[color=green]so, when the black panthers decided to defend their own neighborhoods against the police using guns, yelling "black power" and "power to the people," you think that's a form of totalitarianism?</font color=green> <br> <br>Defending yourself against the police would be more effective as a communal effort. I am not at all against it. I am, however, against the idea that A)All whites are secretly (or not-so-secretly) racists and B)All bad cops are whites, often out to get blacks. So to sum up, I would have supported your example a lot more if it had been everyone joining together to drive the cops away, preferably out of the city. Think about it this way: if I (a really pale Jewish girl) had been walking along beside the black neighborhoods, seen the people trying to defend themselves from the cops, and wanted to go fight beside the people, would they have handed me and whoever else came along a stick, or would they have wanted "whitey" to get away? If it's the first, I have no problems. If it's the second, they would have been guilty of generalizations and racial prejudice. <br> <br>[color=green]i think we all need that type of power.</font color=green> <br> <br>But we've already got the numbers. It's just little, obnoxious things like this whole blacks-and-whites-are-separate issue that's stopping us from taking advantage of it and eventually being able to abolish power completely.