anti-playboy and girl!!!!

[Insecuritykiller]

Who cares? It's there, watch it. enjoy it. Don't worry about the people in the video, they don't want you to think about them. They are just making money.

Lots of people have domination fetishes. More for sexual reasons then any other. But if you're not hurting anyone then don't worry about it. I don't think that women are that affected by porn. I'm sure they want to enjoy sex in the way that they personally want it.

You shouldn't be afraid of porn. I'm sure it will be made in its current format until the end of time. There could be some better taste stuff too made in the future. I'd like that, a bit of class.

[Jonny Forgotten]

Personally, I think that porn is disgusting and degrading to all around it (i.e. the viewers and the makers). I feel the same way about strip clubs. I would never buy or watch anything pornographic.

However, I would never say that you, as a person, don't have the right to. I might say you shouldn't, but wouldn't ever dictate what you can or cannot do. That is up to you.





"I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

[Bodhisattva]

Who cares? It's there, watch it. enjoy it. Don't worry about the people in the video, they don't want you to think about them. They are just making money.

Lots of people have domination fetishes. More for sexual reasons then any other. But if you're not hurting anyone then don't worry about it. I don't think that women are that affected by porn. I'm sure they want to enjoy sex in the way that they personally want it.

You shouldn't be afraid of porn. I'm sure it will be made in its current format until the end of time. There could be some better taste stuff too made in the future. I'd like that, a bit of class.

People are social animals. We're influenced by what we see around us. An alcoholic might sit in his room all day drinking and reading and think, "I'm not hurting anyone, so I'm allowed to do what I want." Any activity has unforseen consequences, even ones that appear to be harmless. Society and the human consciousness are far more complicated than most people give them credit for.

Just a side note: A good portion of readers of Playgirl are men. When Peter Steele from the band Type O Negative found that out after posing, he was pissed

[Noleaders]

Who cares? It's there, watch it. enjoy it. Don't worry about the people in the video, they don't want you to think about them. They are just making money.

Lots of people have domination fetishes. More for sexual reasons then any other. But if you're not hurting anyone then don't worry about it. I don't think that women are that affected by porn. I'm sure they want to enjoy sex in the way that they personally want it.

You shouldn't be afraid of porn. I'm sure it will be made in its current format until the end of time. There could be some better taste stuff too made in the future. I'd like that, a bit of class.

People are social animals. We're influenced by what we see around us. An alcoholic might sit in his room all day drinking and reading and think, "I'm not hurting anyone, so I'm allowed to do what I want." Any activity has unforseen consequences, even ones that appear to be harmless. Society and the human consciousness are far more complicated than most people give them credit for.

Just a side note: A good portion of readers of Playgirl are men. When Peter Steele from the band Type O Negative found that out after posing, he was pissed

So what exactly is the harm? in my opinion there should be a very good reason for any restrictions on freedom and that includes things you might deem immoral such as porn.
As for the alchoholic yeah let him drink, support him if he wants to stop but dont force it on him.

[Bodhisattva]

So what exactly is the harm? in my opinion there should be a very good reason for any restrictions on freedom and that includes things you might deem immoral such as porn.
As for the alchoholic yeah let him drink, support him if he wants to stop but dont force it on him.

Morality is a human attempt to label certain actions. We label things to believe we understand them. I'm of the opinion that yes, porn should remain legal and under certain circumstances, is a healthy activity to pursue. However, there are consequences for every activity. On the one hand, watching porn might make you a better lover. On the other hand, there is rampant drug use, materialism, and many other activities that are allowed to continue because of our consumerism.

My point was that selfish activities affect loved ones. An alcoholic who spends time in his room drinking and reading still has a powerful impact on his family and friends. I believe this ties in with the basic principles of the human condition. If a human is fundamentally flawed, then society is flawed. If society is flawed, then government (or lack thereof) will be flawed. Anarchism is not a liable solution if the very building blocks (the people) do not possess the strength to hold it up.

There is a quote I came across a while ago. It refers to democracy (not the shit we have now).

"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide." –John Adams

In truth, any form of half-way fair governance of society has been doomed to failure, even if that failure is measured in centuries, not a few years. People are at odds with their role in the world. That confusion and denial corrodes.

[Insecuritykiller]

Yeah well. when the revolution comes.

Until then. keep wanking.

[Maithuna69]

Yeah well. when the revolution comes.

Until then. keep wanking.

Good advice. I will. I like my having destiny in my own hands.

[Noleaders]

My point was that selfish activities affect loved ones. An alcoholic who spends time in his room drinking and reading still has a powerful impact on his family and friends. I believe this ties in with the basic principles of the human condition. If a human is fundamentally flawed, then society is flawed. If society is flawed, then government (or lack thereof) will be flawed. Anarchism is not a liable solution if the very building blocks (the people) do not possess the strength to hold it up.

I dont understand, in anarchy we'll all be perfect?

I think the sole reason selfish activities exist because when it boils down to it we are all egoists. End of. Unless you take away self ownership this will always exist and the entire anarchist theory is built on self-ownership. I should expand the harm principle a little bit, rather than anything that causes harm to others it should be anything that restricts their self ownership. Although i have a lot of sympathy for the family of the alchoholic i still dont believe this warrants an invasion of liberty. Only if the alchoholic wants to get better.

oh and

Yeah well. when the revolution comes.

Until then. keep wanking.

best quote ive heard in ages

[Hazzard]

Note: When I came to this thread I didn't plan to post. But then I realized I apparently have a lot to say on the matter.

I'm anti-Playboy and anti-Playgirl, but not because I think the very act of posing nude objectifies people... simply because the economic pressure forcing some people into doing so objectifies them, just as is true in other areas of business. Women may be viewed as a commodity by the owners of porn magazines, but workers are viewed the same way by the owner of Wal-Mart.

If a man or woman decides to pose nude because he or she truly wishes to do so, then that's his or her right. I'd feel guilty looking at a Playboy, but not for looking at something a person enjoyed making as an expression of his or her sexuality.

Also, there are dominant/submissive themes in some pornography, but they should be viewed in the same light as anything else. They are not inherently sexist one way or the other. If the people taking part are willing and enjoy their roles, who are you or anyone else to stop them as long as no one is being hurt? I know some people who are dominant, and some who are submissive in sexual matters, and to suggest that this has any bearing on their value or equality to one another in everyday life (with a few exceptions... but there always are) would shock and offend them.

Once again, economic coercion is the real issue here. If I were more confident in my looks, I'd probably pose nude just for the hell of it.

And men do, on average, have a stronger sex drive than women... it's just a biological difference. But to say that gives men the right to act in ways that women aren't allowed to, would be stupid. Biology is only a part of behavior. Also, trust me... I've known girls with some pretty strong sex drives too.

Bottom line: Every case is different, and there are as many different motivations for any given choice as there are people who make that choice. Assuming that everyone who poses in one of these magazines is doing so just to make ends meet, or something like that, seems to be over-simplifying things. In today's society, I generally don't look at porn. In an anarchistic society, you bet it would exist, and I'd probably have a huge stack of it. After all, it was made to be looked at, and I'd be reasonably sure that the people in it really don't mind.

[Guest]

Porn is Capitalist to the core. Enjoying sex while there's a crew of dozen people and a director shouting 'in the ass! in the ass!', 'moan louder', 'fuck her hard!' that we don't see in the final cut. If that's liberating...
PORN is 99,999 % made for MASTURBATING ! For people who cannot get sex. And this category of people were a 'breach' where market analysts put their attention. And people involved do it for MONEY. Not for pleasure or liberation. I mean come on...
SEX should be spared of market economics. If anarchists propose abolishing monetary value on everything from needle to locomotive, how should thay support sex industry. Capitalism has put sex on industrial-scale production. Porn-stars are like the machines that makes auto-parts, pumping up and down to a preselected programe. Till the end of the shift. And again.

[Zazaban]

Of course, the above user ignores amateur porn, non-heterosexual porn, anti-capitalist porn (which I think has already been linked to on this topic), and any form of porn that isn't a movie.

Essentially, their argument is equivalent to using valley girls as a critique of people in general.

P.S. What's wrong with masturbating? The guest's highly emotive language suggests that it is something we should be shocked and horrified by.

[MStirner]

This debate is fuelled by the twisted attitudes to sexuality that we have in the western world. Sex is no different than anything else. In a society based upon capitalist principles, it is turned into an industry, and like every other industry is exploitative. Sexual imagery produced for the purposes of sexual arousal have always existed and, probably, always will. It is the system in which this takes place which is the problem.

As an aside, the levels of gender stereotyping in this discussion are extraordinary

[Baconator]

Porn is not a woman-only enterprise. I am irritated when typically women are only condemned.

In terms of sexual liberation, a person ( regardless of gender or sex) should be able to do what they want with their bodies. The only factor I would consider when regarding porn is the issue of age.

I think all of us would have real issues with child pornography because it is exploitative and just sick. Not that the age of 18, like in most countries' laws, really means anything but I think we can all say that a person should be mentally and physically an adult before deciding to do pornography.

[Maggot]

All pornography sucks. I don't care if it involves adults or children; it still sucks.

[leadhead]

LOL!

I have to say, I haven't been on this site for very long, but I find it most intriguing because there seems to be so many people on here that.... I dont know how to expain it.

Perhaps I will just ask the question.

There seems to be a good number of "anarchists" on here that want to ban alot of shit be it sex for profit or eating animals...why do you guys want to be anarchists? You are clamoring for the very non sequitur logic that got us all into this mess in the first place.

You cant make people do stuff that YOU think is the proper way to live life. People do all kinds of stuff that I cant stand, but that is MY problem not theirs. I need to get over it! You guys do to. If we cant all figure out how to do this, we are going to be in this prison for a loooooonnnnngggggg time!