Ageism.

[Killer]

Ageism has (as far as I know) not really been discussed here on Flag. My questions are: where do you think it is the most prevalent? do you often notice it? and do you know of any literature on it?
My opinion is that ageism is most prevalent in our own homes, where the authority of parents is generally accepted by the community partially because the parents are older than the kids.

[Guest]

trivia:

ageism on infoshop's boards was what spurred me to request creation of this board, and it all got discussed years ago. unfortunately, there are no archives. so much quality writing vanishes as a result. (what would it take to start archiving, pom?)

where do you think it is the most prevalent?

hard to say, as it is one of the primary foundations of hierarchy and as such is most everywhere.

do you often notice it?

more than any of the other 'isms', yes.

and do you know of any literature on it?

i'm not much on book learnin', so i don't know. but i'd be happy to research it a bit.

[Killer]

where do you think it is the most prevalent?

hard to say, as it is one of the primary foundations of hierarchy and as such is most everywhere.

Yeah, I´ve been thinking about it a bit, and have discovered many situations where it is dominant.

[Poop]

I don't think we could really discuss ageism without mentioning schools since it's such a big aspect of young people's lives. The basic premise of school is that young people are too stupid to have any control over their lives, so they need to told what to think, what to study, when to study, and be subjected to all sorts of arbitrary authority like having to ask permission to go to the bathroom, and just in general be sacrificed in Procrustes' bed because all kids are the same and need to be molded into good, obedient citizens.

And of course we shouldn't forget about ageism against older people. So don't forget about it, I guess.

[|Y|]

I'm 28 and I can't buy alcohol without being ID'd.

[Killer]

And of course we shouldn't forget about ageism against older people.

I can imagine it is very visible in teenage subcultures. Many young people also make fun of the old only because they´re afraid of getting old themsleves. And when they finally do get old they get depressed and kill themselves and rot in hell for eternity because they made fun of old people.

I'm 28 and I can't buy alcohol without being ID'd.

That could come across as a praise. I´m 20 and I never get ID´d. I wonder what could be made out of that.

[trashycakes]

anarchist teenagers - who cares if you're intelligent, it's always just a PHASE.

[K=x'uksami]

anarchist teenagers - who cares if you're intelligent, it's always just a PHASE.

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I get that all the time.

[harryr]

anarchist teenagers - who cares if you're intelligent, it's always just a PHASE.

They are right, at least statistically. I am 54 years old, i remember going to anarchist conferences events etc in the 70's that were mostly made up of people like me in their early 20's. Where are they now? Fact is most anarchists drop out of the the scene after their mid thirties. Often because of family committments. Essentially the anarchist movement is a youth culture and has been ever since the 60's. As people get older they change, ideas, values, tastes in music, etc. The majority of anarchists at any one time are young and movement reflects this. I am still an anarchist but only because i rejected and reevaluated practically everything i thought and believed when i was young. I used to be an activist, revolutionary, anarchist communist. Now i am a mutualist anarchist, an incrimentalist who rejects revolultionary strategies as inheriently self defeating, who regards most activism as futile and delusionary. A dead end that at best band aids a problem often by means of state intervention or action, that does not do much to increase the numbers of anarchists. I think our best prospects lie in creating anarchist communities for anarchists, that provide the goods and services we need without concern for the workers, oppressed minorities, who are mostly statists looking to the state for advantages. Instead our communities should be open to anyone regardless of their beliefs who is prepared to live in freedom and tolerate and accept the diversity and freedom of others.

harry

[Anarchia]

And of course we shouldn't forget about ageism against older people.

Thats something I have noticed myself being guilty of on a number of occassions - it hardly ever gets mentioned when referring to ageism.

[skullcap]

to harryr--
i can't say about where you are, but the belief that anarchy is a youth thing is wide spread, but not my experience.
i have anarchist friends from teens to people in their 80's, with most being between 25 and 50, or so. i think it depends on what activities you engage in. if you're doing black bloc's, yeah, you'll get the hearty teens, but if you're into study groups you get to hang with the old folks.

it's funny that around the time of the Haymarket affair anarchists were anarchists with their families, they didn't drop out because they had children. i wonder what that is about?

and yes, we must watch for ageism from both ends. but if you are treating folks in a non-hierarchical way, it isn't a problem.

[blueyedbum]

anarchist teenagers - who cares if you're intelligent, it's always just a PHASE.

I think our best prospects lie in creating anarchist communities for anarchists, that provide the goods and services we need without concern for the workers, oppressed minorities, who are mostly statists looking to the state for advantages. Instead our communities should be open to anyone regardless of their beliefs who is prepared to live in freedom and tolerate and accept the diversity and freedom of others.

harry

i agree completely that that is the only way or at least most useful to an anarchist advatage

[xvxChrisxvx]

it's funny that around the time of the Haymarket affair anarchists were anarchists with their families, they didn't drop out because they had children. i wonder what that is about?

I am reading Living My Life vol. 1 by Emma Goldman right now and just was thinking about this today. It seemed like many anarchists had families with kids. I only know one anarchist who is a mother and her kids are some of my really good friends. She's super rad and fun to talk to. But I'm not sure why they didn't drop out. I could only speculate. Maybe it's because they didn't see that as something that would prevent them from contributing to the Cause. Maybe back then, they were more dedicated to achieving their freedom and some people aren't as serious about it anymore. But my personal experience of not seeing any families being anarchists may be totally off compared to everyone else's experiences.

[Insecuritykiller]

The way i look at it when ageism becomes an issue then the entire thing becomes a joke.

[xvxChrisxvx]

The way i look at it when ageism becomes an issue then the entire thing becomes a joke.

What do you mean? Please explain.