Activist Scenes are No Safe Space for Women

[Steppenwolf]

1) Ad hominen is old. Anyone who seriously thinks that this makes them sound intellectual, wins arguements or serves any purpose other than to skip debate is naive at best. Its also a troll's best friend. And yes, I know all about the troll underbridge, the culture, the alt. link contests and so on. You're also using a technique called "borrowed vocabulary" with this faux-intellectual statement: "debunk your erroneous assumptions and assertions". Not even first year philosophy undergrads could make that statement in any seriousness. You also notably only addressed the first part, which means you're a lazy troll. 2/10 for effort.

2) By "women's mags" you mean "fashion magazines". You don't mean "Pregnancy monthly" or "Women in Business". The very idea that you've somehow missed the fact that the fashion industry is run by men, is largely divorced from reality and so forth I don't buy. At all. By "men's magazines" you mean "soft-core porn crap like FHM, Loaded and so on". Strangely enough, I don't see "curvy women" on the front of "Men's Health" or "Fly-fishing monthly". (You do see it on Motorsports magazines, of course, as that's essentially pornography as well). So in a rather transparent move, you've tried to conflate "women's magazines" with "fashion industry" and "men's magazines" with "soft-porn entertainment". So basically, your "Anarchist" appraisal of the gender situation is based on Capitalist magazines, and tries to ignore the difference between base sexual titillation ("curves") and gender construction and "sophisticated" sexualised ideals ("size 0"). Capitalist WESTERN magazines at that, given that if you didn't realise, large corporate entities such as Maxim, Elle etc have different covers in each separate country they run in, to maximise appeal to the cultural normative view of "attractive". i.e. Its largely a US thing that equates large breasts with sexual appeal, in other cultures its other secondary sexual features (e.g. Brazil, large bottoms). Excuse me while I don't give a fuck about your opinion, and your content work on trolling isn't subtle. Next time at least try and subvert some statements by anarchists steeped in 19C culture (its not.that.hard). Oh wait, you did with your "clever precise" of Goldman. Sigh. 3/10.

3) Using Andrea Dworkin as representative of all feminists. Straw-woman, blatantly obvious and more than likely that she's probably the "worst" ultra-radical feminist you know about. She isn't, but then again she tried very hard. 5/10 as you googled a suitable quotation of hers, and at least have heard of one "ultra-radical" feminist.



Basically, you are a troll, and I give your efforts 4/10. Please stare at your screen and realise that you're quite transparent, go post to your "ultra-cool" board that the session is over, and the "tee-hees" are as well. Now schoo, this was a public service announcement just so others will stop feeding you. Your other option is to continue to claim innocence, or start using some sock-puppets at which point I'll ignore you anyway. Ciao kid. I'll give you 6/10 if Kropotkitten is your sock-puppet ~ but please learn that intellectual masturbation that is the raison d'etre of trolling seems really embarressingly juvenile when you realise the world is larger than you. It really does - get out and enjoy, hopefully you'll realise that the trolling phase just isn't that cool with a bit of experience.

If you are somehow serious, in that you've just come of age where the age lock has been removed from your computer, or your intellect has blossomed to the point where you are trying to form opinions, then your arguement boils down to: I live in a Capitalist system; my viewpoint is the same as that system's propoganda; most of my female friends buy into it as well. This raises some questions that probably are interesting (such as: fragmentation, back-lash and radicalisation of US feminism ~ what can be done, what are the problems, fresh appraisals and so forth). However, your arguement basically means you're not an Anarchist, so get into the 101 already and stop posting where your ignorance is embarressing. The article is about a female perspective on the anarchist scene, and problems therein. You're not an anarchist, so ergo shouldn't be posting here. So don't.


And your sig isn't clever, or ironic, its just sad: trolling is crushing dreams, deary. And no, you don't get fed ever again.


http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Troll

http://www.urban75.com/Mag/troll.html

http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?TrollingTactic

I've broken the rules, just because people really are feeding you in all seriousness, which is kind of sad, and denotes an unhealthy forum. And yes, I'm feeling all Bookchin at this point - shame on Flag, what happened?

[Steppenwolf]

I'm starting a thread in the 101 section of the forum, loosely based on the issues raised by the article. Gonzo, its the only place I'll engage you, but feel free to come along and read for a while.

[Gonzo Joker]

http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Troll

Well, Definition 2 of your own link describes you perfectly:

<i>Troll: 2. A person that throws around the troll insult to: anyone who defeats them in an argument, anyone points out facts the real troll doesn't want people to know, or someone the real troll picks at random to stick falsely with a troll label for sheer lulz. This second type of troll is 99.999% of all trolls now and is often called an Anti-troll.</i>

In all seriousness, steppy, people like you are the biggest obstacle the concept of Anarchy faces, if it is ever to be anything more than the subject of coffee shop debates amongst pseudointellectuals.

Authoritiarian-Anarchists (a term which fits you perfectly) who believe that anarchists must conform to your own pseudotheories of how humans should behave have no business talking down to those who truly desire freedom from authoritarian assholes. In fact, rule by greedy bastards who care little about those under them is preferable to rule by pretentious know-it-alls who think they have all the answers, but in reality know nothing.

Here is a good starting point for you to begin your deprogramming, and perhaps to start your real education:

http://akpress.com/1997/items/anarchyafterleftism

[Steppenwolf]

Hate to rain on your "parade".

But Bob Black is the Uncle Tom of anarchism.

BEYOND FUNNY.

Black subsequently acknowledged that he had informed on Hogshire to the police, a claim that led to his alienation from some anarchist circles. No, he didn't have to hand over some records to the FBI, under pain of losing access to your kids for 5-10, of some idiots who made some trolling "radical" links to terrorism, when any idiot can sub-mask their IP to the site anyhow. (history of flag)

He had a shit friend, who trashed his place, was whacked on drugs, he got scared, called the police. No wait.. he wet himself, used his friend's wife as a living shield then fled, then called the cops three weeks later to rat out said friend. LULZ. Oh, and his one piece of original thought was more of a pamphlet. "Beyond work" or "Why you should sponser me by paying me to speak at dinners". Although he had a great big picture of himself on his website (that SOLD his books).

Yes. He's really that much of a joke. Seriously, if you keep this level of parrying up, I might have to one-day give you a link to like... omg.. something dangerous like...


Drum-roll

http://www.anarchist-cookbook.com/



Lulz. You're either a shit troll, took too much acid or 13. I can't decide if its all three yet.


Wait. Given your abilities at posting, I think you might actually be B.B.

[skullcap]

But Bob Black is the Uncle Tom of anarchism.

what the hell does this mean?

Black subsequently acknowledged that he had informed on Hogshire to the police, a claim that led to his alienation from some anarchist circles. No, he didn't have to hand over some records to the FBI, under pain of losing access to your kids for 5-10, of some idiots who made some trolling "radical" links to terrorism, when any idiot can sub-mask their IP to the site anyhow. (history of flag)

He had a shit friend, who trashed his place, was whacked on drugs, he got scared, called the police. No wait.. he wet himself, used his friend's wife as a living shield then fled, then called the cops three weeks later to rat out said friend. LULZ. Oh, and his one piece of original thought was more of a pamphlet. "Beyond work" or "Why you should sponser me by paying me to speak at dinners". Although he had a great big picture of himself on his website (that SOLD his books).

Yes. He's really that much of a joke.

steppenwolf,
you were good there for a while, trying to school the gonz, but your lame attack on B. Black is just as old as gonz's sexism.

if you are an anarchist you should at least be aware of the tendancy in anarchism not to be moralistic. yes BB ratted out a drug dealer, many of us would not do the same, yet many of us were not in his shoes either. if you are so pure in your anarchism to cast stones, well some may worship you as a saint. i, however, am not so pure. i have done things that by the anarchist morality code a lot of folks would not find kosher, but i am not a public figure so no one knows. and so what? we each have to make our own choices, that is anarchy, no?

and Bob has written many things, not solely "The Abolition of Work". his work is funny and usually right on.

i'm not saying you have to like anyone's personal life, but to condemn someone for something that happened a long time ago, well, to me that is just silly.

[Gonzo Joker]

But Bob Black is the Uncle Tom of anarchism.

what the hell does this mean?

It means that Steppy really doesn't understand the meaning of the phrase "Uncle Tom". The term "Uncle Tom" is used by American blacks to refer to a black person who sells out his own race in order to secure a comfortable position working for the white man.

In order for Bob Black to be the Uncle Tom of Anarchism (a patently ridiculous statement) he would have to go to work for the system, something he will presumably never do.

As you will see from Steppenwolf, he is utterly unable to articulate an argument, and instead relies solely on labels and inapprpriate insults to vent his anger and frustration.

[Steppenwolf]

But Bob Black is the Uncle Tom of anarchism.

what the hell does this mean?

It means that I have issues with someone so willing to sell his books and so forth, whilst pronouncing his own greatness... at the same time saying "Most anarchists are stupid" (direct quotation). Oh, and if you didn't already know, BB was taking cash from Rep. organisations.

Black subsequently acknowledged that he had informed on Hogshire to the police, a claim that led to his alienation from some anarchist circles. No, he didn't have to hand over some records to the FBI, under pain of losing access to your kids for 5-10, of some idiots who made some trolling "radical" links to terrorism, when any idiot can sub-mask their IP to the site anyhow. (history of flag)

He had a shit friend, who trashed his place, was whacked on drugs, he got scared, called the police. No wait.. he wet himself, used his friend's wife as a living shield then fled, then called the cops three weeks later to rat out said friend. LULZ. Oh, and his one piece of original thought was more of a pamphlet. "Beyond work" or "Why you should sponser me by paying me to speak at dinners". Although he had a great big picture of himself on his website (that SOLD his books).

Yes. He's really that much of a joke.

steppenwolf,
you were good there for a while, trying to school the gonz, but your lame attack on B. Black is just as old as gonz's sexism.

Its not lame: in fact, BB is probably conintell at work.

if you are an anarchist you should at least be aware of the tendancy in anarchism not to be moralistic. yes BB ratted out a drug dealer, many of us would not do the same, yet many of us were not in his shoes either. if you are so pure in your anarchism to cast stones, well some may worship you as a saint. i, however, am not so pure. i have done things that by the anarchist morality code a lot of folks would not find kosher, but i am not a public figure so no one knows. and so what? we each have to make our own choices, that is anarchy, no?

[red=color]Not really, no. I'm afraid I take anarchism to mean slightly more than a person, individualist ethic that I may or may not subscribe to on weekends. In fact, a central point of anarchism has, and always will be, ethics, social justice and over-all concern for a non-theistic morality. That you claim it isn't merely depresses me about the state of the scene, and the juvenile tendancies to believe in some kind of Alastair Crowley inspired "do what thy wilt"[/color]

and Bob has written many things, not solely "The Abolition of Work". his work is funny and usually right on.

Actually, he hasn't. His amount of work over 10 years is extrememly frugal, and lacking. I've read it all: it took me a day. His one book was extremely limited, and his journo-pieces are usually 75% about his personal issues and then perhaps 20% critique then 5% of anything of any worth

i'm not saying you have to like anyone's personal life, but to condemn someone for something that happened a long time ago, well, to me that is just silly.

The problem is... and please, this is what I find so amazingly amusing: BB himself stated he was not an anarchist, would have no ties with anarchism and so forth in 1985. BB is an uncle Tom since he made a huge issue of his "personal danger" (direct quotation) in being involved in the anarchist scene, but did little apart from: a) make a big splash website selling his work b) inform on friends (who, yes, were probably as big a fuckwit as him) premediatively to the police c) threatened to sue people for libel d) maintained a constant negative discourse with everyone barring those who bought his books and e) took money from the Gov. to do so.

So yes. He's an Uncle Tom.


I find it extremely amusing that some trolls dig him up to hold up like a Guy Fawlks when most of us in the active scene don't care who he is, barely remember his actions, and think he was a total fuckwit.


Oh. And without proof, it seems the land of the sock-puppets has begun. Gonzo really is boring in his inability to go anywhere with his trolling other than "largest poster on a site not many involved in the scene bother with now because people like him rule" *ZZzzzz*

[skullcap]

Its not lame: in fact, BB is probably conintell at work.

this is just stupid. agent baiting is usually done by agents, don't ya know?

Not really, no. I'm afraid I take anarchism to mean slightly more than a person, individualist ethic that I may or may not subscribe to on weekends. In fact, a central point of anarchism has, and always will be, ethics, social justice and over-all concern for a non-theistic morality. That you claim it isn't merely depresses me about the state of the scene, and the juvenile tendancies to believe in some kind of Alastair Crowley inspired "do what thy wilt"

i guess you have never read Stirner or the lineage from him, but i could have guessed that since you only seem to be able to claim others as juvenile or whatnot, not yet able to recognize your own shortcomings.

and Bob has written many things, not solely "The Abolition of Work". his work is funny and usually right on.

Actually, he hasn't.

actually, he has. "Rants", "Beneath the Underground", "Friendly Fire" and "Anarchy after Leftism" are just the books i have on my shelf now. this doesn't include the many articles and letters that have appeared.

[Infinite]

or just an asshole.

*ding ding ding*

[WhyINeverWentBack]

James in the Rain molested me. Done and done. No rape. He definitely didn't get me alone. And my clothes didn't come off. I could sense gross all over him but my disinterest and attempts at trying to excuse myself didn't stop him from aggressively rubbing his erect penis on me. Ozarks Rainbow Gathering '96. I'll never forget that man's name. Disgusting. I was 18 y/o. A young 18. I didnt' even know how to deal with it. So I just waited for him to stop. Didn't do anything just stood there waiting for him to get off of me.