Porn

[Tom]

The problem with porn is that it is targetted almost universally towards men, and there is little alternative for women. Also, porn at the moment maintains the gender roles of female submissiveness and male dominance. There is nothing inherently wrong with pornography, but the problem is rather with the consumerisation of sex and sexuality.

The concept of banning or ending it is similar to victorian attitudes towards "saving" women from sex by locking them in their houses.

Discuss [100 marks]

Extra marks for successfully writing your name. In crayola.

[Post_industrial]

Hmmm.
I think this is less true now then it used to be.

There is definitly alot more porn that is marketed to men then women, both gay and straight. I think men also tend to be the biggest consumers of porn, though some women enjoy it also. Im not realy sure why this is. Perhaps women respond better to erotic fantasy, while men respond better to the sexual act itself. This is a gross over generalization though, and cant possibly apply to everyone.

My issue with pron isnt that some people like to be Voyers and others
like to be exibitionist. People should be free to have sex with whoever they want, in front of people, by themselves, and even videotape themselves if they want.

The porn industry however I feel subjagates women. I dont think the actors are doing anything wrong by choosing it as a profession, but I think society is set up so that many younger women are foced to submit and perform acts of sex they do not enjoy to pay for rent and school as our capitalist society does not take care of young people who dont have rich parants.

If we lived in an anarchist society where we didnt have to worry about paying rent, and we could study knowledge that is preserved by our communities free of charge, I wonder if we would have the same number of women volonteering to have sex with men they are not attracted to for barter or as a form of community service.

In Greece there actualy were religious sects who would recruit Priestess who would volontarily have sex with anyone who asked. It was their philosophy that "Everyone was entitled to the gifts of the Goddess". They were respected as individuals with high standing in the community, and were also healers and doctors.
Also in parts of asia, massage with sexual release was concidered an aspect of health care. An idea that might sound strange to alot of people today.

I think people should be free to do whatever they want, but my biggest issue with the porn/sex industry is that alot of these women dont choose this profession becuase they enjoy their work, but becuase our capitalist society is set up so that its dificult for young women to take care of themselves economicly unless they have a man taking care of them in relationships, or if they sell their bodies for money.

This is less true now then it used to be. Alot of progress has been made, but economics is still an issue, and we still have reminants of sexism in our society.

[Poop]

The problem with porn is that it is targetted almost universally towards men, and there is little alternative for women. Also, porn at the moment maintains the gender roles of female submissiveness and male dominance. There is nothing inherently wrong with pornography, but the problem is rather with the consumerisation of sex and sexuality.

You seem to have trouble making up your mind. "The problem with porn is A. Also, B. There's nothing inherently wrong with pornography, but the problem is rather C."

I don't see A as a problem, I don't think B is applicable to all pornography, and I'm not sure what you mean by C.

Discuss [100 marks]

What does that mean anyway?

Extra marks for successfully writing your name.

Pooop. Pop. Poopp. Popo. Aw, damn.

[Tom]

You seem to have trouble making up your mind. "The problem with porn is A. Also, B. There's nothing inherently wrong with pornography, but the problem is rather C."

I don't see A as a problem, I don't think B is applicable to all pornography, and I'm not sure what you mean by C.

Who said its what i think anyway?

Anyway, ill rephrase it. "Some of the problems with porn are..."

"These problems are not inherent to porn, however, and are a result of C"

What does that mean anyway?

You mean you don't get marked for your essays in the land of the free?!

Extra marks for successfully writing your name.

Pooop. Pop. Poopp. Popo. Aw, damn.

Good try.

Anyway, i'm posting threads like this as an attempt to foster some discussion other than "chuck is an authoritarian/kirsten's a maniac/Y's an idiot".

Though make no mistake, Y is an idiot.

If we lived in an anarchist society where we didnt have to worry about paying rent, and we could study knowledge that is preserved by our communities free of charge, I wonder if we would have the same number of women volonteering to have sex with men they are not attracted to for barter or as a form of community service.

Is there a difference between taking a photograph of a naked person (consentually) and the porn industry taking the same photos (consentually)?

i have lots of other questions, and ideas of my own, but ill wait and see what other people say.

[Poop]

You mean you don't get marked for your essays in the land of the free?!

No. Who would mark them?

Anyway, i'm posting threads like this as an attempt to foster some discussion other than "chuck is an authoritarian/kirsten's a maniac/Y's an idiot".

Though make no mistake, Y is an idiot.

I'll never make that mistake.

[|Y|]

Ponography is only "wrong" when it is an economic requirement. It doens't matter what gets people off. Most gay male porn is extremely violent, for example, but few would find fault with that. Because, hey, guys are rough and shit, right? That's one reason I like lesbian porn, it's so... gentle... heh. Perferrably amateur porn, though, more realistic and natural, no boob jobs, etc.

Also, I enjoy the attention you guys give me, so maybe you're going about this the wrong way... then again, maybe you like giving me attention, like I'm some kind of mascot of sorts.

[Post_industrial]

Im going to try to be nice to Y, becuase Ive allready said enough shit about him, and its out of my system for now till he does something realy dumb again, or writes another derogotory essay about me on his blog (Which I havnt checked in some time).

He did make a decent point this time though which is also what I was getting at. There is nothing inherently wrong with pornography unless it becomes an economic requirement.

I would feel the same way about working in a coal mine, even though there is nothing inherently wrong with breaking a sweat, (Lets not include strip minning, but old fashioned dig a hole in the side of a hill minning.) there is something wrong with the subjagation of labor where people are forced into dangerous and unhealthy work against their will for meagar wages paid by the Buisness man and given to the landlord.

[|Y|]

Post_industrial, the only blog I have makes no comments about people on flag, period (it is a personal blog which has no connection to my flag persona in any way). Who are you mistaking me for? I do not get into personal conflicts with people unless I'm stressing and making a bad decision. It's pointless.

[Din]

Ponography is only "wrong" when it is an economic requirement. It doens't matter what gets people off. Most gay male porn is extremely violent, for example, but few would find fault with that. Because, hey, guys are rough and shit, right? That's one reason I like lesbian porn, it's so... gentle... heh. Perferrably amateur porn, though, more realistic and natural, no boob jobs, etc.

Leave it to Y to throw out stereotypes of homosexual and lesbian porn.

[Din]

He did make a decent point this time though which is also what I was getting at. There is nothing inherently wrong with pornography unless it becomes an economic requirement.

I would feel the same way about working in a coal mine, even though there is nothing inherently wrong with breaking a sweat, (Lets not include strip minning, but old fashioned dig a hole in the side of a hill minning.) there is something wrong with the subjagation of labor where people are forced into dangerous and unhealthy work against their will for meagar wages paid by the Buisness man and given to the landlord.

But who condemn miners for mining? Why the double standards when it comes to females choosing to use their sexuality to earn money?

And nobody ever seem to think that the male participants in porn are involved in it as an economic requirement. So why the widespread assumption that female participants in porn are largely subjugated out of economic necessity?

[Yuda]

He did make a decent point this time though which is also what I was getting at. There is nothing inherently wrong with pornography unless it becomes an economic requirement.

I would feel the same way about working in a coal mine, even though there is nothing inherently wrong with breaking a sweat, (Lets not include strip minning, but old fashioned dig a hole in the side of a hill minning.) there is something wrong with the subjagation of labor where people are forced into dangerous and unhealthy work against their will for meagar wages paid by the Buisness man and given to the landlord.

But who condemn miners for mining? Why the double standards when it comes to females choosing to use their sexuality to earn money?

And nobody ever seem to think that the male participants in porn are involved in it as an economic requirement. So why the widespread assumption that female participants in porn are largely subjugated out of economic necessity?

I had an interesting debate with a member of SAC (swedish syndicalists) and a member of a local syndicalist union - the local unionist was working with sex workers on imporving their working conditions. The SAC member was telling us that they won't work with sex workers which we felt was a bit odd.

[Post_industrial]

He did make a decent point this time though which is also what I was getting at. There is nothing inherently wrong with pornography unless it becomes an economic requirement.

I would feel the same way about working in a coal mine, even though there is nothing inherently wrong with breaking a sweat, (Lets not include strip minning, but old fashioned dig a hole in the side of a hill minning.) there is something wrong with the subjagation of labor where people are forced into dangerous and unhealthy work against their will for meagar wages paid by the Buisness man and given to the landlord.

But who condemn miners for mining? Why the double standards when it comes to females choosing to use their sexuality to earn money?

And nobody ever seem to think that the male participants in porn are involved in it as an economic requirement. So why the widespread assumption that female participants in porn are largely subjugated out of economic necessity?

First of all, I dont condem porn starrs male or female, and I dont condem minners. I think you are misunderstanding me, or jumping to conclusions.

I definitly do think that coal minners are subjagated economicly, and in that sense it is actualy very simmiler.

Your confusing two issues as if they were one. 1) Are sex workers bad people. No, they can be great people. 2) Are sex workers less subjagated then coal minners. Perhaps they are equaly subjagated. Perhaps they love their work, or perhaps they are homeless runnaway teens recruited into the sex industry out of nessesity. I think the problem is Rent, and our socio-economic system. These women are not bad for choosing their line of work, but the economic system is bad for creating financial burden on young single females that compels some* women to make choices they perhaps* they would not have made.

This has nothing to do with the morality of sex, but with the way our society sells sex, yet does not take care of people unless they produce some kind of weath.

[|Y|]

Leave it to Y to throw out stereotypes of homosexual and lesbian porn.

Oh, I guess Tom wasn't "stereotyping" when he originally stated the "dominance" in porn either. I guess there is some magical objective truth where everyones point of view is total absolute fact!

Women can't be fucked hard because that makes them "submissive"!

[Din]

First of all, I dont condem porn starrs male or female, and I dont condem minners. I think you are misunderstanding me, or jumping to conclusions.

Not saying that you did. The question was who ever and that's a reference to the widespread and popular condemnation of female pornsters in relative comparison to male pornsters or miners.

Your confusing two issues as if they were one. 1) Are sex workers bad people. No, they can be great people. 2) Are sex workers less subjagated then coal minners. Perhaps they are equaly subjagated. Perhaps they love their work, or perhaps they are homeless runnaway teens recruited into the sex industry out of nessesity. I think the problem is Rent, and our socio-economic system. These women are not bad for choosing their line of work, but the economic system is bad for creating financial burden on young single females that compels some* women to make choices they perhaps* they would not have made.

I suppose I'm more or less in agreement here. In the capitalist system, many of us are driven to work in occupations that we might not choose to if we had more of a real choice. The moralism of many tend to focus only or mostly on females working in the sex industry and I find that annoying. Females in porn are no more bigger victims of capitalism than others generally.

And they not be young or single to experience a financial burden that drive them to work in the sex industry.

[Din]

Oh, I guess Tom wasn't "stereotyping" when he originally stated the "dominance" in porn either.

He wasn't expressing his own opinion, you twit. That was established after Poop questioned the statements made.

Women can't be fucked hard because that makes them "submissive"!

I don't remember you being such an such an irritant before. What happened?