new understanding of islam and religion all together.

[Insecuritykiller]

I have come to understand that religion is a group fear kind of thing. Where to be apart of the group you must belong to the religion. And even more so if it is 'apart of your race'. When you immigrate for example.

I understand that when people continue on the religion they are simply saying that they are not yer ready to become agnostic humanist whatever. That it is up to their children.

They offer the religion to the children, and if the children accept it then they too, are not ready to become agnostic humanist.

And so it goes on. So what we have to do is appeal to these people with the same things that got us out of the religious cycle. We need to keep promoteing science and the free lifesytle where we just have life and humans on their own. Until they are ready.

Many of them just do it traditionaly, but they say and sometimes tell themselves that they believe in the religion. They must do this, to stay in their group. To keep their integrity. But even so, they often scale down their religion to just a personal life. A personal choice. To those in islam, we have earnt their respect by comeing up with technolegy and modern society.

So they sit placidly until the world decides what to do with them. If islam becomes as big and as comfortable to live in as western society. Until islam wins its pride back, most muslims will sit in submission to the west. They know that their own society fell apart and now they just continue as they always have. The west is their new home.

But they all know in their hearts, the truth. And all that they do is offer their religion to their children. Until they choose agnostic humanism instead. Surely western society is currupting enough.

[leadhead]

Civilization is the disease and Religion is the coping mechanism.

Doesn't matter if you like Yahweh, God, Allah, Muhammed, Jesus, Bhudda. The point is to get you to externalize your problems instead of examining what the fuck is happening to you and doing something about it. If you do something great, you give god the credit. If a bird shits in your eye, you may secretly be pissed off at god or just chalk it off as god's plan for something bigger that you dont understand. The purpose being that you dont "try" to understand it at all as then you might get all logical and "act"

The people that run this world dont care what religion you ascribe yourself to, as long as you are relinquishing your rights, power, and choices to and external source...they are all good with that. That people is real mind control, not telepathic reptilian shapeshifters or symbols and words of secret societies that know some sort of esoteric magic!

[Insecuritykiller]

Nup.

Religion is a powerful force in peoples lives that eclispes our uncreative society.

I feel that religious people would be threatened by any revolution. Especially muslims who believe in the nation of islam. If we were to say that there was no nation, they would organise a caliphate for sure.

We have to be the nation of the western world, because muslims respect that. We would have to make that clear to them. That they can continue to live on our land so long as they respect us. Otherwise it would be war.

Sure anarchism would sow some descent in people and we might find alot of recruits who used to be muslims. Or that have become a downgraded version of the religion, made a comprimise for us. But anarchism is very powerful and i think it would bring out islams ugly side more then our current liberal just make money society.

If we could maintain a peace, if we could gain their respect for our own revolutionary society. Then we could co-exist. They could even have their own state just for them, or they could become more sufi or whatever.

If that peace came about, then some muslims may come over to our side. But religion is really powerful you don't understand what it's like to be born into a religious family and especially so if you receive a proper islamic upbringing. To them that's the vindication of their own religion. The fact that children take it up.

If you push their beliefs they may see an islamic caliphate as the only answer. Personally i think we SHOULD push them so then they can move back the the middle east and stop bothering us. Why should we have to put up with them, our society split blood fighting them so we didn't have to live like them.

They can make a caliphate in the middle east. Or maybe somewhere more green if they really dont want to live there even though it's their peoples sacred ground where thier tribes have lived for millions of years. We made australia a nice place to live and it's a desert too. So they can do the same, or they can all settle in hungury of something.

[leadhead]

To be honest, the Right wingers are so far ahead of everyone in that regard. If a revolution actually happens in the United States of America, it is going to come from the fundamentalist Christians who actually have a loose understanding of the historical patriot and the second amendment.

Dont believe me? Just do a google search on Militia and start reading some sites. As backwards as they are, they are THE last hope for this country. Just let them do it, then when they want to try to give this country back to god, we just keep it at anarchy!

[Insecuritykiller]

Yeah you could be right there. The christians aren't going to give this world up easily to the muslims. There will definitely be some conflict i think. An epic battle for souls. Hopefully the christians will be nice to us anarchists through this conflict. I hope they stay true to their ideals about choice.

Maybe in the center of this madness a third faction can arise of scientists and humanists. Maybe that's where we belong. In china perhaps, maybe we should all move there.

[Zazaban]

To be honest, the Right wingers are so far ahead of everyone in that regard. If a revolution actually happens in the United States of America, it is going to come from the fundamentalist Christians who actually have a loose understanding of the historical patriot and the second amendment.

Dont believe me? Just do a google search on Militia and start reading some sites. As backwards as they are, they are THE last hope for this country. Just let them do it, then when they want to try to give this country back to god, we just keep it at anarchy!

The likeliest outcome is the formation of a fascist theocracy, of course.

Which, interestingly enough, is what happens in my novel.

[Dimitri]

Religion is a necessary disease. Without it many people might become hopeless and chaos happens. Religion is something to give the weak of mind a grip on life. The trick is not to let religion grow big enough to control the entire society. From this point (which happened) religion becomes a leech, attracting more leech to suck away the potential of the body.

Religion should be used as the leeches during the dark-ages. For support and treating a disease only, and once handled being cut away until the next disease occurs.

You say to take on an agnostic humanist point of view, I answer with objectivism and realism. It is better to choose a side then to reside in the shade of grey. Once a side is chosen, progression can be made. If the side you choose turns out to be wrong, go to the other: adapt, change and progress.

Anyone can talk shit about religion, even I know the missteps and corrupt ways of religions. But I also know the necessity of religion to certain people. Religion should be used as a tool and not as a mechanism.

[Insecuritykiller]

Maintaining friendly relations and making sure everyone is just being peaceful and living life is the best.

Kids can figure it out for themselves if they want to follow in the footsteps of their parents. Once all fear and insecurity is put aside individuals from all walks of life will gain more free will.

[Dimitri]

Maintaining friendly relations and making sure everyone is just being peaceful and living life is the best.

Kids can figure it out for themselves if they want to follow in the footsteps of their parents. Once all fear and insecurity is put aside individuals from all walks of life will gain more free will.

That's the little problem. Hate is born into humans, there simply can't be a situation where everyone is peacefull with each other. There will always be situations which will turn out into a fight even for the slightest, unmeaningfull subject.

"Kids can figure it out for themselves if they want to follow the footsteps of their parents"?
I would like to see a day where a kid of 6 years old doesn't hold a common belief like his parents, or even has the ability to figure out he/she wants to follow them.
Kids see their parents as "gods", parents raise their children according to what is best to them . Giving children the ability to figure out things for themselves, you should start at the moment they are born. Keeping them away from ANY limiting and subjective ways of thinking.
Quite impossible if you take a better look at it..

[Insecuritykiller]

Maybe. I rejected my mothers belief in christianity though. I also went to a semi-religious school. Though that was probably due to the influence of my father who is into science. His influence on my older brothers who told me god isnt real.

Useing religion as a tool seems odd to me. I never like to go along with peoples lies. I would just prefer to confront them about it.

Maybe you're right that religion will continue as long as we don't do anything about it. If that's the case then they can go form a caliphate somewhere and leave us alone.

If they try to conquer us, we'll just have to fight them. That could turn the world into chaos. But what other option do we have other then to fight them.

Religion was never necessary. It was more of a fun game.

[Dimitri]

You see insecuritykiller, saying religion was never neccesary is quite wrong. It once was (and to some still is) a neccesity. The answer is written in your name: "insecurity". Despite the many good atheistic and scientific reasons, ideas, facts,... there are still some philosophical questions unanswered which still strike fear on a sub-conscience level. (The subject of death as an example). Religion is the answer to calm the masses down and to let the weak of mind reside in a synthetic created paradise so they don't start become a burden.

If they try to conquer us, we'll just have to fight them. That could turn the world into chaos. But what other option do we have other then to fight them.

Fighting them puts you on the same level as them. It is better to ignore it and if being bothered by it directly pull the plug out. Within atheistic circles most think "religion should be fought against and be destroyed for once and for all". WRONG, religion is too big for that it's an endless battle which is only won if you don't participate.

Useing religion as a tool seems odd to me. I never like to go along with peoples lies. I would just prefer to confront them about it.

Using a tool doesn't mean you have to become a part of it, you only need an understanding to make it operational. I have an atheistic inspired philosophy, yet I use religion as a tool sometimes to have my will done. I have a great understanding of christian belief system, this makes me capable of using it and throwing it off when neccesary. I dare any christian to step into a duel with me about their belief system and in the end I will come out as the one best acknowledged, despite my own opposing views.

To operate a tool you don't need to know from what it has been made up, just the know-how to operate it is sufficient.


If I'm not mistaking: didn't they recently proof that believing in something "paranormal" is natural?

[Insecuritykiller]

Yeah i have no problem with people believeing silly things. As long as they stay out of my way.

I guess what you are saying is that we should learn about their belief systems so that we can get them out of our way.