Why does anarchism matter to me?

[Guest]

I would like to take a brief pause in this discussion to say that this is a really great forum, definitely of higher intelligence than nearly all the other Internet forums I have encountered.

this thread sucks lol

[Guest]

Who gave anarchists the authority to tell me I'm oppressed but just don't know it, anway? I certainly don't feel oppressed and I would know more about how I feel than you do. Believe it or not, I am an intelligent human being and not some hapless prisoner who needs an anarchist knighthood to rescue me from a capitalist dragon. For a political theory opposed to elitism, anarchism sure seems patronizing.

[Pomegranate]

Who gave anarchists the authority to tell me I'm oppressed but just don't know it, anway? I certainly don't feel oppressed and I would know more about how I feel than you do. Believe it or not, I am an intelligent human being and not some hapless prisoner who needs an anarchist knighthood to rescue me from a capitalist dragon. For a political theory opposed to elitism, anarchism sure seems patronizing.

well then it's not surprising which side of the coin you fall on, right? you're on the winning end of global corporate capitalism, of course you don't want to see anything change.

for the majority of the world, however, where people live in constant fear of death and conditions of pitiful squalor the story isn't quite the same. they're on the losing end of the economic system which needs no change from your point of view.

where'd i put those rose tinted glasses anyway, i keep misplacing them.

[|Y|]

Who gave anarchists the authority to tell me I'm oppressed but just don't know it, anway? I certainly don't feel oppressed and I would know more about how I feel than you do. Believe it or not, I am an intelligent human being and not some hapless prisoner who needs an anarchist knighthood to rescue me from a capitalist dragon. For a political theory opposed to elitism, anarchism sure seems patronizing.

Well, if capitalism fell tomorrow I doubt very seriously you'd still want to be a part of it. So what does it matter what you think or what you know or don't know? You should be smart enough not to ascribe to systems that are falling apart. So if you were to continue clinging to capitalism after that point which it fell, well, that's your problem, isn't it? Then maybe you would become that very oppressed person you talk about. But unlike the poor in our current society, at least you'd have that choice.

[Guest]

Well, if capitalism fell tomorrow I doubt very seriously you'd still want to be a part of it. So what does it matter what you think or what you know or don't know? You should be smart enough not to ascribe to systems that are falling apart. So if you were to continue clinging to capitalism after that point which it fell, well, that's your problem, isn't it? Then maybe you would become that very oppressed person you talk about. But unlike the poor in our current society, at least you'd have that choice.

Maybe, but capitalism doesn't appear to be falling at all. Surely you aren't dreaming of some kind of market crash.

well then it's not surprising which side of the coin you fall on, right? you're on the winning end of global corporate capitalism, of course you don't want to see anything change.

for the majority of the world, however, where people live in constant fear of death and conditions of pitiful squalor the story isn't quite the same. they're on the losing end of the economic system which needs no change from your point of view.

So you consider it a moral duty to support anarchism, whether you have anything to gain from it personally? If that's the case, then what logical basis do you have for this moral requirement?

[Pomegranate]

there are no moral requirements. i support anarchism because i believe people can govern themselves and don't need a state. i also believe power structures which give one person unfair advantage over another are inherently counterproductive and should be done away with.

[Nexonic]

Empathy is independent from morality.

[Guest]

Who gave anarchists the authority to tell me I'm oppressed but just don't know it, anway? I certainly don't feel oppressed and I would know more about how I feel than you do. Believe it or not, I am an intelligent human being and not some hapless prisoner who needs an anarchist knighthood to rescue me from a capitalist dragon. For a political theory opposed to elitism, anarchism sure seems patronizing.

i dont think you are being opressed. i think you are opressing others with your lifestlyle and your support of massive campaigns of terror and child rape.

oh, and no one can grant me the authority to have an opinion - kinda a dumb idea dont you think?

[Guest]

Maybe, but capitalism doesn't appear to be falling at all. Surely you aren't dreaming of some kind of market crash.

...

So you consider it a moral duty to support anarchism, whether you have anything to gain from it personally? If that's the case, then what logical basis do you have for this moral requirement?

every historical indicator of conditions for a crash is a big fat blinking red light right now. this doesn't mean that there will be a crash. but it is true that conditions for one are very ripe right now.

(despite all the bullshit talk about capitalist "deregulation", goverment and the financial sector manipulate the markets heavily, including the use of a Plunge Protection Team formed after the mini-crash of 1987. funny thing about markets though, the more you intervene, the more the pressure builds in the opposite direction, so when the crash comes it is much worse.)

what i think the poster is lacking is a historical perspective. if the only thing you've known is the relatively stable and lavish lifestyle provided to a large number of americans, then you might be inclined to think that this situation is permanent, even though there isn't a historical precedent for that.

ask someone who lived in russia in both the 80s and 90s. during the cold war, very very few people on either side of the wall thought that the soviet union would collapse. but it did. their currency went through some major fluctuations too.

or ask an argentinian who has been through the 00's (wtf is this decade called anyways????) when they woke up one day and the banks were closed.

it CAN (and most likely will) happen here too.

imho, anarchism in certain forms is the only possible system that will allow humanity to survive and thrive. if my values include compassion for humanity as a whole, i am drawn to anarchism. if all i care about is me, me, and me, and i happen to be fit and able, then capitalism offers me the chance to exploit others for personal gain - perfect for me, me, and me.

[Guest]

i dont think you are being opressed. i think you are opressing others with your lifestlyle and your support of massive campaigns of terror and child rape.

Ah, so I'm the oppressor and you want me to either voluntarily step down or be overthrown forcefully. I'm sure you never use anything made by the third world, of course, and that you're a true proletarian, who doesn't exploit the third world at all.

Empathy is independent from morality.

Empathy is hardly independent of it. It's something we learn from a society which tells us that we must care about others.

[Pomegranate]

Ah, so I'm the oppressor and you want me to either voluntarily step down or be overthrown forcefully. I'm sure you never use anything made by the third world, of course, and that you're a true proletarian, who doesn't exploit the third world at all.

shall we rather live under oppression? just because you're the rich person, you get it better than the rest of us? how far will you stretch your nonsense to try to appear contrary? it's amazing, chiggy.

[Guest]

shall we rather live under oppression? just because you're the rich person, you get it better than the rest of us? how far will you stretch your nonsense to try to appear contrary? it's amazing, chiggy.

Well, can you give me an argument as to why I ought to relinquish my relative wealth? What is the logical basis for your moral opposition to capitalism? Where does your morality find its root?

[Pomegranate]

shall we rather live under oppression? just because you're the rich person, you get it better than the rest of us? how far will you stretch your nonsense to try to appear contrary? it's amazing, chiggy.

Well, can you give me an argument as to why I ought to relinquish my relative wealth? What is the logical basis for your moral opposition to capitalism? Where does your morality find its root?

and who said you have to "relinquish my relative wealth"? what is "relative wealth" anyway?

[Guest]

and who said you have to "relinquish my relative wealth"? what is "relative wealth" anyway?

I mean that in comparison to the people you say I am oppressing.

[Guest]

And of course I'll have to relinquish my wealth. What else would a revolution of the proletariat against people like me mean besides losing my property at best? What exactly do you want me to do, anyway? I can't change the fact that I'm white, male, and heterosexual. I can hardly be faulted for enjoying a high standard of living (and don't tell me you wouldn't feel the same way if you were in my position). Do you seriously expect me to apologize for being white or American? Do you want me to use up my wealth getting a sex change? If anarchists expect me to wallow in guilt for the rest of my life because I have "white privilege", I think I'll just stick with a less hostile political theory.