Freemasonry and anarchism

[Zazaban]

\Why is it that the far right seems so full of these bizarre theories, of Masonic gangsters and reptilian Jews taking over the world and that?

Because they don't have anything better to criticize the far left with.

Also, this thread is probably the funniest I've ever seen on this website. It may even surpass the 'Columbine was a masonic conspiracy' thread.

P.S. What is with people and the masons? Aren't there more interesting people to pick on? Seriously, I found a masonic bible (which they deny exists) at a used book store and read it, and it wasn't that exciting. I was very disappointed.

[K=x'uksami]

Because they don't have anything better to criticize the far left with.

Possibly, but I've always found it funny and weird how they pile on far more (and far crazier) accusations than are necessary to make their point.

[AndyMalroes]

You stated in your last post that Frank Zappa was a Mason, yet you have him as your username. As you so vehemontly oppose the masons how is this any different to Anarchists flying the Jolly Roger.

Your reference to Proudhons Masonic beehive is Ridiculous. Why would the Masons believe they could control an idea that is completely opposed to control, this goes for all of your comments.

In relation to the jolly roger, if the symbol is only knwnas a Masonic symbol of death to a few of your like minded friends, then the symbol now means something different to the majority. Taking of symbols has happened throughout history including the theft of the shwastika.

[Zazaban]

Because they don't have anything better to criticize the far left with.

Possibly, but I've always found it funny and weird how they pile on far more (and far crazier) accusations than are necessary to make their point.

I have this image of a bunch of right-Libertarians sitting in a basement betting on who can come up with the craziest conspiracy about 'the left.'

[Guest]

it's a lot more complicated than all that.

first of all - the masons are bad news - google "propaganda due" for just one of many examples. (silvio berlusconi, white courtesy telephone please...)

why all the wacked out stuff? easy, it's called "poisoning the well." when the well is sufficiently poisoned, it becomes cover for real crimes. it creates a situation where anyone who wants to talk about the real evils of masonry automatically gets lumped together with people like our visitor zappa.

the hip-hop industry has indeed been subverted to serve the interests of certain people. however, i don't think it's the masons...it's just capital and the state.

and the denver airport stuff is truly weird - and the debunking of it doesn't ring true.

and there is plenty to criticize in the left and far left. large portions of the left (from the bolsheviks to medea benjamin) are/were funded by the capital elites. when people on the 'wacko right' point this out, they get lumped together with 'right wing conspiracy nuts...'

stuff is rarely as it appears in the mainstream perception. the powers that be know this, and poisoning the well is one of the tactics they use to deflect critical analysis.

[frankzappa]

Many thanks again for your comments. The frankzappa moniker is a black joke, apologies if that has only just become apparent. Frank would freely admit that he was the slime, but also the best you could get, listen to Frank Zappa "Im the slime" Overnight Sensation LP.

The elite have worked hard to nullify the symbolization of the skull and crossbones to the masses maily through drama and music, and they have managed with sucess to get everybody wearing it, especially children and the hiphoppers. It is true it has reached an almost benign association to the masses as they have been so conditioned to not understanding its significance, this is perhaps its most worrying aspect, and one which I am repeatedly trying to stress to anarchists.

To understand the symbolization of the skull and corssbones one should start with Hogarths Four Stages of Cruelty, and then work from there.

http://www.artoftheprint.com/artistpage ... ection.htm

Regarding anarchism.

HG Wells though nominally a socialist, was always in bed with the major darwinist thinkers of the time.

In this paragraph of New Worlds for Old he talks about the theoretical similarities of what he terms ‘true and noble anarchism’, this is also the ‘higher stage’ of communism Marx and anarchists refer to. He states ‘laboriously we mean to destroy false ideas of property and self’

H. G. Wells, New Worlds for Old (1908) That Anarchist world, I admit, is our dream; we do believe - well, I, at any rate, believe this present world, this planet, will some day bear a race beyond our most exalted and temerarious dreams, a race begotten of our wills and the substance of our bodies, a race, so I have said it, 'who will stand upon the earth as one stands upon a footstool, and laugh and reach out their hands amidst the stars,' but the way to that is through education and discipline and law. Socialism is the preparation for that higher Anarchism; painfully, laboriously we mean to destroy false ideas of property and self, eliminate unjust laws and poisonous and hateful suggestions and prejudices, create a system of social right-dealing and a tradition of right-feeling and action. Socialism is the schoolroom of true and noble Anarchism, wherein by training and restraint we shall make free men.

In the cold light of day HG wells calls for eugenics and dictatorship through committees can be seen as the hell so clearly portrayed in Huxleys Brave New World and Orwells 1984.
However unappealing to anarchists this vision may be, HG Wells claims are no more objectionable than Kropotkin’s claim for the beehive as his vision of anarcho-syndicalism. Although an anarchist may reject scientific socialism, it is a rejection of its means – not its ends. Bakunin is very clear on this in Catechism of a Revolutionist (1869):

Mikhail Bakunin and Sergi Nechayev, Catechism of a Revolutionist (1869)
“The Revolutionist is a doomed man. He has no private interests, no affairs, sentiments, ties, property nor even a name of his own. His entire being is devoured by one purpose, one thought, one passion - the revolution. Heart and soul, not merely by word but by deed, he has severed every link with the social order and with the entire civilized world; with the laws, good manners, conventions, and morality of that world. He is its merciless enemy and continues to inhabit it with only one purpose - to destroy it.
He despises public opinion. He hates and despises the social morality of his time, its motives and manifestations. Everything which promotes the success of the revolution is moral, everything which hinders it is immoral. The nature of the true revolutionist excludes all romanticism, all tenderness, all ecstasy, all love”.

Whereas HG Wells sees the ‘New World Order’ as occurring outside his lifetime Bakunin sees this process and the goal of extinction of ‘self’ and ‘property’ as his most urgent revolutionary aim. It in no small way recalls Orwells fictional recruitment meeting for the brotherhood in 1984 in the sense the initiate is expected to throw all caution to the wind.

'You are prepared to give your lives?' 'You are prepared to commit murder?' 'To commit acts of sabotage which may cause the death of hundreds of innocent people?' 'To betray your country to foreign powers?' 'You are prepared to cheat, to forge, to blackmail, to corrupt the minds of children, to distribute habit-forming drugs, to encourage prostitution, to disseminate venereal diseases -- to do anything which is likely to cause demoralization and weaken the power of the Party?' 'If, for example, it would somehow serve our interests to throw sulphuric acid in a child's face -- are you prepared to do that?' 'You are prepared to lose your identity and live out the rest of your life as a waiter or a dock-worker?' 'You are prepared to commit suicide, if and when we order you to do so?'

Bakunin was unabashed in his encouragement for the worst excesses of the brotherhoods land-based piracy.

Mikhail Bakunin 1869
To The Comrades Of The International Workingmen's Association Of Locle And Chaux-De-Fonds
Source: The following letters are taken from a series of articles Bakunin wrote in the spring of 1869 for the journal El Progress of Geneva

“In this epoch the bourgeoisie too had created an international association, a universal and formidable one, Freemasony. It would be a substantial error to judge the Freemasonry of the last century, or even that of the first part of the present century, by what it is today. The bourgeois institution par excellence, Freemasonry, in its development, in its growing power at first and later in its decadence, represented in a way the development, power and moral and intellectual decadence of the bourgeoisie. Today, fallen to the sad position of a senile old intriguer, it is a useless, sometimes malevolent and always ridiculous nullity, whereas, before 1830 and especially before 1793, having gathered together at its core, with very few exceptions, all the minds of the elite, the most ardent hearts, the proudest spirits, the most audacious personalities, it had constituted an active, powerful, and truly beneficial institution”

“It is known that all the principal actors of the first revolution were Freemasons, and that when this revolution broke out it was able to find, thanks to Freemasonry, friends and devoted and powerful collaborators in all other countries, a fact that was assuredly of great help in its victories. But it is equally clear that the triumph of the revolution killed Freemasonry, for once the revolution had largely fulfilled the aspirations of the bourgeoisie, and had enabled it to displace the old nobility, the bourgeoisie went on quite naturally, after having been an exploited and oppressed class for such a long time, to become in its turn a privileged class, a class of exploiters, oppressive, conservative and reactionary in nature, the most reliable friend and supporter of the State”.

It is simply incorrect to state Freemasonry is the borgeousis institution par excellence. Freemasonry has always been the institution par excellence of the elite – the ruling class. Though a large strata of freemasonry are bourgeouis, and a considerable aspect of masonrys ideology is bourgeouis, its ideas have always been guided by the ruling class faction of masonry. This faction is largely concerned with money and its investment and cares little for capitalist enterprise, any more than it did the old feudal aristocracy. It is simply a means to an end, towards complete and utter enslavement of mind, body and soul.

There is a sense in which, as this ruling class factions only concern is doctrine, and dogma, the production and investment of money can even be considered of secondary importance. Money is merely a manifestation of existing social relations, of a worthless commodity (paper) reified to the status of gold. In all ages money has been a figment of mans imagination, the expression of the dogma of slavery.

Bakunin states that:
“Today, fallen to the sad position of a senile old intriguer, it is a useless, sometimes malevolent and always ridiculous nullity”

Bakunin bemoans that the ruling Masonic borgeouis faction of freemasonry of his age has lost its revolutionary drive, however, this happens in every period of human history, that once the bourgeois class becomes established it becomes greedy, jaded, paranoid and most of all corrupt.

The borgeouise has always lay in between the working and the ruling class. At most stages in history the borgeouise has always had a highly contradictory relationship to all classes, either wanting to destroy its own upper eschelons (monopoly corporate capitalism) in order to implement its own power structure, or wanting to annihilate the working class - fascism. At other times it will court both the power structure and the workers.

As the ruling borgeouis factions become corrupt, they develop opposition from other bourgeois factions who invariably in all ages have courted the masses to help overthrow the corrupt and bloated ruling (Masonic) faction. This is little different from land based piracy with one side having the support of the masses, no different from one heroin dealer murdering then taking over anothers spot, it makes little difference to the man supplying the smack, or the addict.

This is the doctrine of enslavement, revolution, counter revolution and further enslavement. Each time this hideous natural cycle occurs the slave is brought one step closer to domination.

“Pyramid.means fire in the middle and fire of (with) the mother. On one level masons are told the joined triangles represent nature, night and day, summer, winter, etc.. In other words, the unification of opposites. To bring order out of chaos, the opposites must be united. Out of the ensuing conflict comes the birth of SYSTEM. This is known today as Force ' Counter-Force ' Outcome. The outcome is supreme for a while and eventually becomes corrupt. It holds on to power by force and tyranny, causing counter-force and outcome. This cyclic philosophy gave birth to Communisn and Naziism. At present it is forcing world government and ultimately world dictatorship. The process of marxisrn advocated deliberate creation of opposite: in order to speed up the process. Ultimately the "new man" is supposed to emerge. The goal is not new, in fact it is found within the esoteric renditions of every religion that exists to-day and has ever existed, at least since the last ice age”. (P18 Alan Watt, Cutting through the Matrix Volume 1, available from Alan Watt – www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com)

This is no less than alchemy where humanity can be considered the base material. This simple formula expressed as occult doctrine, is very well understood by those brothers who are ‘in the light’.

This class barely moved a muscle while the supposed remenants of the old chuch and state aristocracies were swept away to make room for the industrial revolution. Far from the period considered “The Enlightenment” being masonrys proudest moment, masonry was merely going through its motions. In his period (Bakunin is referring to France) freemasonry is a truly beneficial institution.

“before 1830 and especially before 1793, having gathered together at its core, with very few exceptions, all the minds of the elite, the most ardent hearts, the proudest spirits, the most audacious personalities, it had constituted an active, powerful, and truly beneficial institution”

When Bakunin talks of 1793 he is most obviously referring to the murder of the butcher Marat in his bathtub, and the subsequent fervor of the French revolution dying down. History can only ever be judged as a record of deeds of men and women and not intention, ‘talk is cheap’ and ‘actions speak louder than words’. No matter what claims the French revolutionaries made to that famous anarchist slogan ‘Liberty, Equality, Fraternity’ the reality of enlightenment was piracy and midnight purges that Pol-pot would’ve been proud of.

Beneath my writing here, I have quoted at length from P83-90, Marat and Robespierre - Evil in the name of liberty, The most evil men in the world, Hamlyn Publishing.

Regarding Marats murder there can be no doubt this was another action of the Brotherhood. The murderer was female, and this is very significant.

The female goddess venus, original Greek name: Hesperos ("evening one"), Phosphoros ("light-bearing one") or Eosphoros ("bringer of the dawn"), Greek goddess: Aphrodite.

The date the murder occurred (13/07/1793) is of significance, as Masons love the number 13.

More importantly than this astrological phenomena associated with Venus occurred during this date:
“In 1793, astronomer Johan Schröter reported that on the predicted day of dichotomy (June 9) Venus‚ terminator (the line between the dark and sun-lit sides) already looks concave (slightly curved), rather than a straight line”.
http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/index.cfm?sid=35215&sc=102

The dichotomy of Venus is a phenomena which manifests for several days putting this activity exactly at the time of the murder.

Manufactured major historical events are more closely connected to re-enactment of occult ritual, than manifestations of genuine human social activity. The reader is urged to research the occult significations of The Russian revolution of October 1917.

Bakunin was no more than a Satanist and willing and complicit tool of the Elite. He would have not hesitated to embrace the barbarism of Marat and Robespierre.

“Hailing the almost-bloodless start of the French Revolution, Honore Gabriel Riqueti, Comte DeMirabeau, said in 1789: ‘His has too often recounted the actions of nothing more than wild animals….. Now we are given hope that we are beginning the history of man.’ But, within five years, that hope had been wiped out by one of the world’s worst outbreaks of mass murder. Frenchmen freed by negotiation from almost feudal tyranny turned into brutal barbaric beasts on the pretext of achieving of achieving liberty, equality and fraternity. And the most poignant epitah for Mirabeaus dream was the anguished cry of a fallen revolutionary as she was led to the guillotine: ‘Oh liberty, what crimes are committed in your name.’

The Revolution erupted when public patience with the Kings absaloute power to impose taxes and laws ran out. Louis XVI and the privileged nobility were forced to make concessions to democracy and individual freedom. But each concession merely made the increasingly strong citizens greedy for more. ‘The difficulty is not to make a revolution go, it is to hold it in check,’ said Mirabeau shortly before his death in 1791. For as the people realized they had the power of life or death, negotiation was abandoned for naked force. After the storming of the Bastille, symbol of the old regimes authority, revolutionaries advocating cautious progress were drowned by the clamour of Radical factions urging war on France’s neighbours and dissidents at home. Then a more sinister voice demanded massacres.

Jean-Paul Marat was not even French – his father came from Sardinia, his mother was swiss. But when the revolution began, he abandond his career as a scientist and doctor to become one of Paris most vitriolic pamphleteers . His early extremism was unpopular, and several times he was forced into hiding. Once when he took refuge in the city sewers, he contracted a painful and unpleasant skin disease, which added to his bitter persecution complex. But as the mob became increasingly impatient with a Revolution which seemed to be doing nothing to reduce raging inflation and food shortages, and with leaders who were prevaricating over the fate of Louis and his hated Austrian wife Marie Antoinette, Marat’s messages began to find a receptive audience. And he spoke with chilling clarity. ‘In order to ensure public tranquility,’ he wrote, ‘200,000 heads must be cut off’.

On 10th August, 1791, an armed procession of 20,000 Parisians marched towards the royal residence, the Tuileries. The King and Queen, and their two children, were smuggled out by elected representatives and taken to the National Assembly building for protection. The Palace’s Swiss guards held the mob at bay until their ammunition ran out. They surrendered – but the mob was in no mood for mercy. More than 500 soldiers were slaughtered with pikes, bayonets, swords and clubs. Another 60 were massacred as they were marched away as captives. Palace staff, even cooks, maids and the royal childrens tutor were slashed to pieces as the Parisians ran riot. Bodies were strewn in rooms and on staircases. The grounds were littered with corpses. And onlookers were sickened to see children playing with decapitated heads. Women ‘lost to all sense of shame, were committing the most indecent mutilations on the dead bodies, from which they tore pieces of flesh and carried them off in triumph’.

The hideous orgy of blood lust instantly brought fears of a backlash from royalists or counter revolutionaries. Marat had the answer. Many opponents of the revolution were already packed in the jails of France, and might break out to seek revenge. ‘Let the blood of the traitors flow’, wrote Marat. ‘This is the only way to save the country’. Hysteria was whipped up warning of a plot to assassinate all good citizens in their bed. In September, the good citizens took steps to make that impossible.

A party of priests who had refused to take a new vow severing their allegiance to Rome were being escorted to prison in six carriages. A mob ambushed them , plunging swords through the carriage windows to wound and mutilate indiscriminantely. Then at the gates of the jail, another mob was waiting. When the convoy arrived, and the priests tried to dash inside for safety, they were slaughtered. Soon afterwards, a bunch of thugs burst into a convent where 150 more priests were being held, along with an archbishop. He was stabbed first. Then the others were killed in pairs, their bodies thrown down a well.

Over the next week gangs broke into jails, prison hospitals and mental asylums all over Paris, massacring inmates with swords, axes and iron bars. Only prisons for prostitutes and debtors was spared. Women were on hand with food and drink for the executioners. Drunken killers held mock trails for some of the victims. One woman awaiting trial for mutilating her lover had her breasts cut off and her feet nailed to the floor before being burned alive. Marie Antoinette, was stripped and raped. Then her body was ripped to pieces. A leg was stuffed into a cannon, her head was stuck on a pole, and her heart cut out, roasted and eaten.

Ghastly scenes of grisly glee were reported as the piles of corpses built up. Drunken women sat watching the debauched death dealers, laughing and applauding at each new depravity. Some pinned cut off ears to their skirts as gruesome souvenirs. Others drank aristocratic blood handed round by the killers, or dipped bread into it. Men sat on bloodied bodies, smoking and joking while they rested from their labours. In six days, during which the gutters ran red, half the prison population, nearly 1200 people were murdered. And those who took a day off to join the extermination squads were paid compensation for lost wages by delighted leaders of the paris commune.

The excesses appalled many of the most radical revolutionaries. But Marat was unrepentant. He signed a letter sent by the commune to its counterparts in provincial towns, explaining that the ‘act of justice’ was indispensible in order to restrain by intimidation the thousands of traitors hidden within our walls.’ And the letter went on: We do not doubt that the whole nation will be anxious to adopt this most necessary method of public security; and that all Frenchmen will exclaim with the people of paris, “We are marching against the foe, but we will not leave these brigands behind us to cut the throats of our children and wives.’” Republicans in many towns that as their cue to match the capitals atrocities by massacring the inmates of their own jails.

In January 1793, the revolution reached the point of no return. The elected national assembly, now called the convention, unanimously condemned Louis XVI to death for trying to ‘re-establish tyranny on the ruins of Liberty’. He was executed in the Place de la revolution, formerly the Place de Louis XV. Within weeks, every major country in Europe had declared war on France, and civil war raged as peasants resisted compulsory call-up to the armed forces.

Minister of Justice Charles Danton set up a revolutionary Tribunal to try to maintain order and avoid atrocities like the September massacres. ‘Let us be terrible to prevent the people from being terrible,’ he thundered. But Convention moderates believed the people would stay terrible as long as Marat was free to incite them. They ordered he be tried by the Tribunal. To their consternation, he was cleared. Carried back to the Parliament in triumph by the mob, he forced through a decree ordering the arrest of 22 of his accusers.

Marat did not savour his victory for long. On 13th July 1793, he was at home wrapped in towels in a copper bath to ease the pain of his of his skin affliction, when a young girl arrived claiming to know of moderates who were plotting an anti leftist coup against Marat’s party. ‘They will all soon be guiloteened’ Marat assured her as he jotted down the names. But the girl, Charlotte Corday, was not what she seemed. She suddenly drew a knife from her cleavage and stabbed Marat. He fell dying as aides manhandled Charlotte to the ground. She seemed obvious to their blows. ‘The deed is done,’ she shouted. ‘The monster is dead’.

But once again the moderates had miscalculated, Marat the monster became the mobs mayrter. All over France, streets and square were named after him. More than 30 towns changed their name to his. And his death did not divert the Revolution from the path of blood. For an even more evil man had taken over the leadership of the leathal extremists, a man prepared to sacrifice even the parents of his godson at the Altar of his ambitions.
Maximillian Robespierre, a cold, humorless barrister from Arras, was despised by many of his fellow revolutionaries for his fastidious appearance and his squeamishness at the sight of bloodshed. Yet by the dapper lawyer who shunned public executions because they corrupted the human soul was the most feared man in France. And he used his power, as chief of the ironically named Committee of public safety, to institute one of the one of the most cruel reigns of terror in history.

Robespierres committee directed the Revolutionary Tribunal in eradicting enemies of the republic. France was still in danger of invasion by its European neighbours, and Robespierre could justify early severity on these grounds. He ruled that all foreign nationals not living in France on 14 July, 1789 – the day the Bastille was stormed – should be arrested. And he executed the most famous foreigner on French soil – Austrian-born Queen Marie Antoinette, Charges against her included conspiracy with her brother, the Austrian Emperor, and incest with her son. Though she denied them all, she followed her husband to the Guilotine on 16 October 1793.

Soon the dreaded tumbrils were speeding almost daily to the scaffold in the Place de la Revolution bringing new victims. Pierre Vergniand, former president of the Revolutionary parliament, had warned:

‘It is to be feared that the revolution like Saturn will end up by devouring its own children.’

Now his prophecy was coming true. He was among 20 moderates accused and condemned to death at a show trial. One stabbed himself to death in the courtroom in a concealed dagger – but his lifeless body accompanied his luckless colleagues for ritual decapitation the next day.
More than 3000 Parisians followed them to the blade. They included former royal mistress Madame Du Barry, accused of mourning the executed kings while she was in London; a general who surrounded himself with the aristocaratic officers and never had good republicans at his table’; an innkeeper who ‘furnished to the defenders of the country sour wine injurious to health’; a gambler who insulted patriots during a card game dispute; and a man who rashly shouted ‘Viva leRoi’ after a court jailed him 12 years for another offence.

Vast crowds watched the executions, eating, drinking and laying bets on the order in which each batch of victims would lose their heads. English writer William Hazlitt reported: “The shrieks of death were blended with the yell of the assassin and the laughter of buffoons . Whole families were led to the scaffold for no other crime than their relationship; sisters for shedding tears over the death of their brothers; wives for lamenting the fate of their husbands; innocent peasant girls for dancing with Prussian soldiers; and a woman giving suck….for merely saying, as a group were being conducted to slaughter, “Here is much bloodshed for such a trifling cause”

The place de la revolution guillotine was so busy that, according to the author Hibbert, people living in nearby Rue Saint Honore – ironically the street where Robespierre had lodgings – complained that the smell of stale blood from the stones was a health hazard and lowered the value of their houses.

Outside Paris, the vicious purges were even worse. ‘The whole country seemed once vast conflagration of revolt and vengeance’ wrote Hazlitt. More than 14000 people died as sadists and butchers in positions of office in the provinces made the most of Robespierres instructions. Others killed to keep up with them, afraid they might be labeled weak or counter-revolutionaries. At Lyons, the committee of public safety mowed down 300 convicted prisoners with a cannon. At Bordeux a woman who wept when her husband was guiloteened was forced to sit beneath the blade while his blood dripped on to her. Then she too was beheaded.

At Nantes, Jean Baptiste Carrier was busy earning himself immortality as one of the worst brutes in the annals of infamy. Mass killer Carrier, a lawyer like Robespierre, found the Guillotine too slow for his taste. He packed victims into barges, towed them to the middle of the river Loire, then drowned them. Some couples were stripped naked and strapped together, face to face. Men waited with hatchets on the shore, to make sure no-one got away. More than 2000 people died in the river. Ships setting sail brought corpses up with their anchors, and the water became so polluted that catching fish in it was banned.

Carrier was also a child killer. The guillotine was unsatisfactory – tiny heads were chopped in half because the necks were too small a target for the blade. And one executioner collapsed and died from the trauma of beheading four little sisters. So Carrier had 500 children taken to fields outside the town, where they were shot and cudgeled to death. But disease cheated the butcher of some of his prey. An epidemic swept through his overcrowded prisons, killing 3000 inmates.

Millions of Frenchmen lived in terror of the midnight knock on the door that spelt arrest. Robespierres spies were everywhere, and his assistants ensured that the pace of persecution never slackened. ‘Liberty must prevail at any price’ declared Louis de Saint-Just, nick-named Robespierres Angel of death. ‘We must rule by iron those who cannot be ruled by justice’ he ordered. You must punish not merely traitors, but the indifferent as well.’

Early in 1794 Robesierre arrested more than 20 Convention members suspected f being critical of the way their revolution was going. One of them was Camille Desmoullins. Roebespierre was godfather to his son, but that made no difference. Desmoullins had said: Love of country cannot exist when there is neither pity nor love for ones fellow countrymen, but only a soul dried up and withered by self adulation.’ He named no names, but everyone knew who his target was. Saint Just hit back: ‘a man is guilty of a crime against the republic when he takes pity on prisoners. He is guilty because he has no desire for virtue.’ Desmoulins died – and so did his 23-year-old widow, Because she appealed to Robespierre for mercy.
Danton, too, was among this consignment of children of the Revolution to be devoured. Robespierre had decided that the notorious womanizer could never be a fit champion of freedom. Danton confided to friends that he would not fight his accuser, because ‘far too much blood has been shed already.’ He added: ‘I had the Revolutionary Tribunal Set up. I pray to god and men to forgive me for it.’

With his main potential rivals purged, Robespierre again stepped up the slaughter. The committee of public safety decreed that death was henceforth the only sentence it would impose. Defence Lawyers, witnesses and preliminary investigations were all banned and an official said: ‘For a citizen to become suspect, it is now sufficient that rumour accuses him.’ Hundreds more aristocrats were executed – 1300 in Paris in one month alone. ‘At the point we are now, if we stop too soon we will die,’ Robespierre told the convention. ‘Freedom will be extinguished tomorrow.’

But in the convention, more and more delegates shared Dantons belated repugnance at the killings – and at last, summoned the courage to resist Robespierre. For 24 hours the Convention was split, with both sides drawing up indictments to arrest their opponents. Finally, the vote went against Robespierre, Saint-Just and 18 of their closest associates. But in the confusion, troops detailed to escort Robespierre to jail proved loyal to him, and installed him in a safe house. The convention summoned more soldiers to recapture him. When they burst in, a shot smashed Robespierre’s jaw. Next day, 28th July, 1794, he was in agony as the Revolutionary Tribunal he had used so lethally sentenced him and his aides to death. Hours later, the tumbrils took all the arrested men to the guillotine, pausing momentarily outside Robespierre’s lodgings while a boy smeared blood from a butchers shop on the door. Robespierre was the last to die. When his turn came, a woman screamed at him: ‘You monster spewed out of hell, go down to your grave burdened with the curses of the wives and mothers of France.’

The new revolutionary regime revenged itself on Robespierre’s followers. Many were executed after trials – Carrier was guillotined on 16th November – and hundreds more were lynched in jails all over the country. The peoples revolution was at last over.”

[AndyMalroes]

I can't believe you can be so embedded in your idea that you truly believe orwells 1984 is a "call for eugenics and dictatorship" 1984 was the exact opposite of this as it portrayed a distopian future, if he truly believed that it was a good idea he would have made it a utopian society.

I have not read "brave new world" but the paragraph you used as evidence of wells' support for eugenics is also misread by you. The one race he talks about is not literally one race it's talking metaphorically of breaking down prejudices. He also states that the way to get to a utopian society is through education (a method that most if not all anarchists agree with) You have taken a perfectly healthy statement and twisted it for your own end, you are seeing only what you want to see.

[frankzappa]

Many thanks for your comments again, Alan has used part of this writing for a synopsis on one of his most recent shows. He gives a lot more context to my comments.

Jan. 23, 2009
Alan Watt "Cutting Through The Matrix" LIVE on RBN:
Dream of Revolution through Evolution (Horus Unbound):

http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.us/C ... 232009.mp3

In reply to your comments:

"I can't believe you can be so embedded in your idea that you truly believe orwells 1984 is a "call for eugenics and dictatorship" 1984 was the exact opposite of this as it portrayed a distopian future, if he truly believed that it was a good idea he would have made it a utopian society."

HG Wells made the call for Eugenics and dictatorships through committees, George Orwell and Huxley showed the hell on earth that results from such calls. I stated this quite clearly.

“In the cold light of day HG wells calls for eugenics and dictatorship through committees can be seen as the hell so clearly portrayed in Huxleys Brave New World and Orwells 1984”.

I have not read "brave new world" but the paragraph you used as evidence of wells' support for eugenics is also misread by you. The one race he talks about is not literally one race it's talking metaphorically of breaking down prejudices. He also states that the way to get to a utopian society is through education (a method that most if not all anarchists agree with) You have taken a perfectly healthy statement and twisted it for your own end, you are seeing only what you want to see.

This is tame compared to some of the statements HG Wells made. I would suggest you do your homework on both Huxley and Wells as they were both Eugenicists, heavily involved with freemasonry and evil.


From 1984 THE THEORY AND PRACTICE OF OLIGARCHICAL COLLECTIVISM by Emmanuel Goldstein
Winston began reading:
Chapter I Ignorance is Strength

Refering to agriculturalists
"To return to the agricultural past, as some thinkers about the beginning of the twentieth century dreamed of doing, was not a practicable solution. It conflicted with the tendency towards mechanization which had become quasi-instinctive throughout almost the whole world, and moreover, any country which remained industrially backward was helpless in a military sense and was bound to be dominated, directly or indirectly, by its more advanced rivals."

Refering to ruling/middle/working class
"The aims of these three groups are entirely irreconcilable. The aim of the High is to remain where they are. The aim of the Middle is to change places with the High. The aim of the Low, when they have an aim -- for it is an abiding characteristic of the Low that they are too much crushed by drudgery to be more than intermittently conscious of anything outside their daily lives -- is to abolish all distinctions and create a society in which all men shall be equal"

Comments

This is Orwells hope. This impulsive urge of the working class can be said to take the form of myth which persists to this day. Rather than a call to anarchism or trotskism it is more a distortion of what we could call the peasants ideal.

The enlightenment was a ruse - Rather than free the peasantry to persue urban democracy , the mass movements of expropriation merely took the toiler one step further away from self subsistence and independence.

If a man has an acre field and can produce enough to support several people, it could be called independence and possibly if this concept developed - freedom.

If the same man has to surrender 10%, 20%, 50%, even more or more of his produce to a king or colonial army, he may have to tighten his belt but he is still free, as he still produces his own means of subsistence.

Once the man is removed from his means of self sustinence he can never be considered free as he relys on giving his allegiance to whoever is producing the substinence. Even if the man never go’s hungry he can still be not be considered free.

Commentators have always talked about ‘the means of production’, i.e. the proletariat is divorced from access to means of production, and is forced to sell his labour to a capitalist in order to survive.

Though this is true, it omits the fact that presumably it’s OK for the worker to have lost his means of sustinence! It is only when one is divorced from the means of sustinence that they need to have recourse to a means of production. This is the basis of alienation. That in becoming specialist in a means of production the person becomes defined by their labour activity, usually one specific task, in order to exchange the value of this labour for sustinence. He becomes as the Marxist would put it – a living unit of production. The principle that 2 men can produce more products in 1 day than 1 man alone could produce in 2 days is at the heart of capitalist production. The rationale behind this is in standardization of tasks, the more individuals who are involved in making a product the quicker it is to produce, imagine the difference in time between hand crafting a guitar and a guitar manufactured on a production line. Capitalist production is forced co-operative labour in which humanity becomes standardized. As it becomes so it identifys with and becomes defined by each other through common purpose (work) and common interest (pay). This gives rise to the principle of communal protest, to represent the common interest. This principle of communal protest has nominally been against capitalist exploitation, but as a child of it has only ever been able to speak in its language.

Marx himself stated that no matter how the material conditions of the proletariat vary his alienation can only become worse as capitalism continues. This means if you have a stack of i-pod and cds and books and enjoy good food, entertainment and lots of casual sex, have lots of money and few cares, you can only ever be less free than from the point in time you had nothing. The analogy which describes this is the heroin addict who kicks after a decade of injecting heroin will surely suffer far greater withdrawl symptoms than the addict who has been injecting for a year. As most of us know - the chronic addict never get off and usually take thier addiction to thier death.

Workers protests have at almost all stages in history been no more than the addicts pleading to the dealer for a bigger fix.

The communists chief concern with peasantry at times of revolutionary periods has always been that either they would refuse to collectivise their produce and land, or they simply had no interest in revolution, especially if harvests were going well.

So often the peasant has been considered the poor relation of the proletariat. The proletariat forgetting (subconciously jealous) the self sustinence of the peasant, he once had himself. It is the only thing which lay behind the instinctive urge of the working class to destroy capitalism. The socialistic paradise is nothing more than the subversion of the peace-ants ideal.

[Zazaban]

Oh my god! Jesus just flew in, and he has a salad!

[Guest]

frankie, like i said before, there's already a link between the masons and flag. point conceded, preachin to tha choir, etc.

[|Y|]

Oggy boogy boo! The big bad freemasons are gunna get ya!

sparticus has new competition.

[AndyMalroes]

Sorry that I misread your post as well as getting the names mixed up in my post. I do concede I need to do some more research. (brave new world should be changed to New worlds for old.

However as another point you need to do some more listening of Frank Zappers "I'm the slime". If you listened to the whole song instead of hearing the first half then running to post a ridiculous comment on a forum, you would have heard "oozing out from your TV set!"

Frank Zappa was actually making a statement about mass media and horrible sit-coms poisoning our mind. He was talking in first person as if we were listening to the "slime" poisoning our very minds with this record.

Although I heard vinyl was invented by Masons in an attempt to make huge profits for their lodge while also subverting an entire culture. This is why Anarchism and music get along so well.

See how easy it is to write shit?

[frankzappa]

Thanks again for your comments, and thanks for your apology. I apologise if these posts are serving a purpose of rubbing ‘salt in the wounds’ for some, as that is far from my intention.
I am posting with the intention of bringing as much information together as possible. Most of it not directly relating to anarchism, which, as many have already stated is usually the victim of the left.

"Frank Zappa was actually making a statement about mass media and horrible sit-coms poisoning our mind. He was talking in first person as if we were listening to the "slime" poisoning our very minds with this record".

I have spent 10 years researching Zappas music and also, I spent a number of years in association with FZ’s official biographer, Ben Watson - he wrote very eloquently on the subject of “I’m the Slime” in the book “The negative dialectics of poodle play”. It is about a lot more than just knocking the media. Again, I would suggest you do your homework before commenting so readily. A clue to the fact that Zappa is talking about himself is contained on the albums cover. If you look you will see the slime coming out of the TV set is Zappa himself.

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=5404

The song is about the commodification and standardization of culture and Zappas part in it, if you work within the entertainment industry you cannot avoid being part of it. If you consume media (and who doesn’t?), you cannot avoid being a part of it.

Regarding some of the earlier comments made:

The concept of the ancient nature of man represents the history of humanity divided into different ages or races, this gives more context to the aforementioned HG Wells quote from New Worlds for Old, regarding his usage of the term 'race'. The ancient nature of man is accepted belief in Hinduism, and generally accepted in some occult research circles.

"An age in astronomical terms lasts for 2,160 years. This is calIed the ’Great', or "Platonic Year" after Plato, the Greek Aristocrat who lived over 2,300 years ago. Now how come he knew, how long the "Great Precession" took? Science is based on observation and repetition. If it had been observed before then the charting of the heavens would have to have begun over 4'600 years ago. At the beginning of that ‘age’ it means there was a leisure class of learned people dedicated to heavenly observation. For thern to have such a system means the previous age (at least) had a form of government capable of forcing the peasants to feed this leisure cIass".

"The fact is, there have been many "ages" and humanity as we know it has been around for rnillions of years. That is why the sciences, including language have been used, not to free humanity but to enslave it" (P1, Alan Watt, Cutting through the matrix, Available from Alan Watt www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com)

"Ages: There are several different systems of ages in astrology. Most often the term is applied to the so-called zodiacal ages, the epochs, the epochs, which are said to arise due to the phenomenom of the PRECESSION of the equinoxes. The entire period of this precession is an age of 25,920 years, which divided into 12 sub periods, of 2160 years’ duration, allocated to each of the 12 year signs of the zodiac (see platonic year). There is little agreement among astrologers as to when the twelve epochs begin and end; some schools insist that we are now well into the age of aquarius, other s that we are in the age of pisces and will so remain for another century or so, while yet others claim we are in the age of Capricorn. It is, of course, a question of which co-ordinates and philosophical outlooks are adopted. An important astrological tradition linked with ages is that concerned with the periodicities during which the archangels have rule over destiny of the world and shape human history".(P11, Encyclopedia of the occult, Fred Gettings, Rider publishing 1986)

"Root races: Modern occultists have described a history of the world in which distinct types of humanity have lived at different periods. Occultists claim that during the evolution of the there have been so far five different Root Races (stages in the development of humanity); they insist that there will be a further two races in the future of the earth. Each of the five Root Races has been given a special name. Humans of the present period blong to the fifth race (called by occultists ‘Aryan’): the Fourth Race was that of the Atlantean, the Third was that of the Lemuria, the Second, Hyperborean, while the First was called the ADAMIC. The Root Races are sometimes called the Seven Races".(P183, Encyclopedia of the occult, Fred Gettings, Rider publishing 1986)

"Seven Races: In the Theosophical cosmo-conception the Seven Races are the seven streams of human evolution, four of which have run the course in the present globe period, the fifth of which is still in progress (see fifth race) and two of which are to be developed in the future. (P200, Encyclopedia of the occult, Fred Gettings, Rider publishing 1986)"

"Yuga: In the Hindu chronology, which has had some influence of modern esoteric thought, the yuga is a ‘world age’, a thousandth part of a kalpa. Each yuga is preceded by a twilight period (sandhya) and is terminated by a twilight period (sandhyansa), and the four yugic periods (together called a mahayuga – which also incorporates the twilights) are named krita yuga, treta yuga, dwapara yuga and kali yuga. The period are expressed in divine years and in the mortal years of ordinary time: the divine year is equal to 360 mortal years. The krita is 4800 divine years or 1296000 mortal years. The dwapara is 2400 divine years or 864,000 mortal years. In spite of such reliable figures, one still finds certain writers maintaining that mankind entered the present age, which is that of the Kali Yuga, at the death of Krishna (c. 3102 BC) and that this age therefore ended in 1898 (or thereabouts). However, the Hindu tradition insists that the world is still in the kali yuga" (P248, Encyclopedia of the occult, Fred Gettings, Rider publishing 1986)

[Zazaban]

Thanks again for your comments, and thanks for your apology. I apologise if these posts are serving a purpose of rubbing ‘salt in the wounds’ for some, as that is far from my intention.
I am posting with the intention of bringing as much information together as possible. Most of it not directly relating to anarchism, which, as many have already stated is usually the victim of the left.

"Frank Zappa was actually making a statement about mass media and horrible sit-coms poisoning our mind. He was talking in first person as if we were listening to the "slime" poisoning our very minds with this record".

I have spent 10 years researching Zappas music and also, I spent a number of years in association with FZ’s official biographer, Ben Watson - he wrote very eloquently on the subject of “I’m the Slime” in the book “The negative dialectics of poodle play”. It is about a lot more than just knocking the media. Again, I would suggest you do your homework before commenting so readily. A clue to the fact that Zappa is talking about himself is contained on the albums cover. If you look you will see the slime coming out of the TV set is Zappa himself.

http://www.progarchives.com/album.asp?id=5404

The song is about the commodification and standardization of culture and Zappas part in it, if you work within the entertainment industry you cannot avoid being part of it. If you consume media (and who doesn’t?), you cannot avoid being a part of it.

Regarding some of the earlier comments made:

The concept of the ancient nature of man represents the history of humanity divided into different ages or races, this gives more context to the aforementioned HG Wells quote from New Worlds for Old, regarding his usage of the term 'race'. The ancient nature of man is accepted belief in Hinduism, and generally accepted in some occult research circles.

"An age in astronomical terms lasts for 2,160 years. This is calIed the ’Great', or "Platonic Year" after Plato, the Greek Aristocrat who lived over 2,300 years ago. Now how come he knew, how long the "Great Precession" took? Science is based on observation and repetition. If it had been observed before then the charting of the heavens would have to have begun over 4'600 years ago. At the beginning of that ‘age’ it means there was a leisure class of learned people dedicated to heavenly observation. For thern to have such a system means the previous age (at least) had a form of government capable of forcing the peasants to feed this leisure cIass".

"The fact is, there have been many "ages" and humanity as we know it has been around for rnillions of years. That is why the sciences, including language have been used, not to free humanity but to enslave it" (P1, Alan Watt, Cutting through the matrix, Available from Alan Watt http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com)

"Ages: There are several different systems of ages in astrology. Most often the term is applied to the so-called zodiacal ages, the epochs, the epochs, which are said to arise due to the phenomenom of the PRECESSION of the equinoxes. The entire period of this precession is an age of 25,920 years, which divided into 12 sub periods, of 2160 years’ duration, allocated to each of the 12 year signs of the zodiac (see platonic year). There is little agreement among astrologers as to when the twelve epochs begin and end; some schools insist that we are now well into the age of aquarius, other s that we are in the age of pisces and will so remain for another century or so, while yet others claim we are in the age of Capricorn. It is, of course, a question of which co-ordinates and philosophical outlooks are adopted. An important astrological tradition linked with ages is that concerned with the periodicities during which the archangels have rule over destiny of the world and shape human history".(P11, Encyclopedia of the occult, Fred Gettings, Rider publishing 1986)

"Root races: Modern occultists have described a history of the world in which distinct types of humanity have lived at different periods. Occultists claim that during the evolution of the there have been so far five different Root Races (stages in the development of humanity); they insist that there will be a further two races in the future of the earth. Each of the five Root Races has been given a special name. Humans of the present period blong to the fifth race (called by occultists ‘Aryan’): the Fourth Race was that of the Atlantean, the Third was that of the Lemuria, the Second, Hyperborean, while the First was called the ADAMIC. The Root Races are sometimes called the Seven Races".(P183, Encyclopedia of the occult, Fred Gettings, Rider publishing 1986)

"Seven Races: In the Theosophical cosmo-conception the Seven Races are the seven streams of human evolution, four of which have run the course in the present globe period, the fifth of which is still in progress (see fifth race) and two of which are to be developed in the future. (P200, Encyclopedia of the occult, Fred Gettings, Rider publishing 1986)"

"Yuga: In the Hindu chronology, which has had some influence of modern esoteric thought, the yuga is a ‘world age’, a thousandth part of a kalpa. Each yuga is preceded by a twilight period (sandhya) and is terminated by a twilight period (sandhyansa), and the four yugic periods (together called a mahayuga – which also incorporates the twilights) are named krita yuga, treta yuga, dwapara yuga and kali yuga. The period are expressed in divine years and in the mortal years of ordinary time: the divine year is equal to 360 mortal years. The krita is 4800 divine years or 1296000 mortal years. The dwapara is 2400 divine years or 864,000 mortal years. In spite of such reliable figures, one still finds certain writers maintaining that mankind entered the present age, which is that of the Kali Yuga, at the death of Krishna (c. 3102 BC) and that this age therefore ended in 1898 (or thereabouts). However, the Hindu tradition insists that the world is still in the kali yuga" (P248, Encyclopedia of the occult, Fred Gettings, Rider publishing 1986)

[Guest]

sisko was really the best of the ST captains.