Freemasonry and anarchism

[Guest]

fyi frank, i don't read your posts because i find the bold difficult to read. i have no idea why, but it's like all caps, the words seem to blur together.

also, bold is meant for emphasis, a word or perhaps a sentence; by bolding your entire posts, it's almost like you're shouting at me, which would make me less interested even if it didn't make my eyes cross.

consider posting normally, and accepting the (remote!) possibility that your posts are not more important than others, and thus do not warrant bolding.

[AndyMalroes]

If you read (as in reed, reeds were made into paper by the egyptians ) the whole thing, he does the bold thing because he doesn't like the quote tool and puts all his quotes in normal text.

[Jawn Disease]

Hahah

http://richardsmith.posterous.com/the-p ... er-le-doll

Freemason money.

[frankzappa]

“fyi frank, i don't read your posts because i find the bold difficult to read. i have no idea why, but it's like all caps, the words seem to blur together.
also, bold is meant for emphasis, a word or perhaps a sentence; by bolding your entire posts, it's almost like you're shouting at me, which would make me less interested even if it didn't make my eyes cross.
consider posting normally, and accepting the (remote!) possibility that your posts are not more important than others, and thus do not warrant bolding.”

Melrose is partly correct on this occasion, I cannot abide the reply feature, but the bolding of posts always started as a reaction to the complete smorgasboard of replies composed of childish pictures, obscene insults and emoticon filled idiot talk. Against this background it is one of the few means of distinguishing my comments.

Are you the cat man? He came in talking all sorts of shit about bolding text and then started babbling about his cat.

I find it very difficult to read your own posts as it is all lower case, but I have neither the time or inclination and nor do I feel it my business to take you up on it, as I keep my own comments in my own thread. Perhaps you might feel fit to use capital letters when appropriate before criticizing the format of others text. There are a very large number of silent readers of this thread, who are able to read and do not feel fit to comment, or be insulting. You might consider the possibility that I couldn’t give a toss what you think or whether you bother reading the posts at all. Otherwise you could copy and paste it into another document viewer and unbold it.

"Why Sodom and not Suedom?"

Its actually both (Su(e)-perman) but words with u’s in can be read as o’s. You and ewe are identical when spoken but can be spelled totally differently. Most vowels are interchangeable. Os is identical to us and oz.

"And why does Gomorrah not sound like 'Gore me' in, say, French? ('Éventre-moi’)"

Gomorrhe is the French reading of Goromy. Eventre-moi is disembowel me, a different thing to gore me, and does not have the same perverted connotations of anal shenanegans. Spoken its Eve (of Adam and Eve) ntre (enter) moi. The word Gore itself is G (the sim-baal the masons worship) then ORE (source from which valuable matter is extracted) the language we speak (English) is sick, sheer blasphemy.

"Are you quite certain you're not just coming up with 'backronyms', so to speak?"

All words are analysed in a number of different ways, either read a word backwards (as they do in many other cunt trees), split it up into to syllables then read them aloud. Anything you might gleam would be more useful than the ordinary interpretation of the word. It is very easy to spend days or weeks on end pondering the meaning of a single word.

I mean, if the Freemasons were operating before the Bible was written, as you say, how could they have had any foreknowledge about the development of Western European Germanic-Romantic pidgens into full-fledged imperial languages?

You talk about the development of languish as though it happened by accident. The introduction of the King James bible overseen by the pedophile mason priest BA-CON standardized and simplified what became the English languish. English has long been considered and pushed as a universal language. The development of all languages has been intimately related to the words, derived from letters of various alphabets, all developed long before introduction amongst the native populations they flourished amongst. How long ago the English languish was conceived before it was introduced standardized and pushed we will never know, but I would wager it was perfected millennia ago then introduced step by step rather than something which developed from common useage amongst the masses. Alphabets and words limit peoples emotional range and define their sensibilities through speech, and written means.

Each letter of the alphabet being a hieroglyph, the true meaning of which very few have ever been able to get close to, means the meaning of any single word could only be concluded to be impossible to find except to a very select few. I do not claim to be one of these persons, rather that I am using very simple tools to try and get to what this deeper meaning is.

[Jawn Disease]

"And why does Gomorrah not sound like 'Gore me' in, say, French? ('Éventre-moi’)"

Gomorrhe is the French reading of Goromy. Eventre-moi is disembowel me, a different thing to gore me, and does not have the same perverted connotations of anal shenanegans. Spoken its Eve (of Adam and Eve) ntre (enter) moi. The word Gore itself is G (the sim-baal the masons worship) then ORE (source from which valuable matter is extracted) the language we speak (English) is sick, sheer blasphemy.

It's 'éventre' because ventre means stomach which comes from the Latin venter and the é- at the beginning is the equivalent of dis- or de- in English, thus, to disembowel, which is the closest French translation of the English 'to gore (someone)'.

[frankzappa]

'éventre'

e is 5 (5 and 6 are veils for the number 666, according to Crowley) VENTURE,
So it can also be read 666 Venture (undertaking). At least you acknowledge the
french translation is an approximation with a different meaning to gore. Perhaps
there is a french word which aproximates the sentiment 'g-ore' evokes more than
'eventre'.

[nihda]

Hello Zappa !

I'm very glad of finding this discussion. I've been in "anarchism" in the latest 12 years... and i learned the history of anarchism and anarchists in my country, Portugal. I founded, in my investigations many indicators of relations between Anarchists and Freemasons... The best example is the killling of the king in 1908 by Carbonaria, a Secret Society of republican freemasons and anarchists.
In the latest years i've ben studing freemasons and secret societys like illuminati, skull and bones, etc, etc... And i realize that they play in ALL SIDES, to get ALWAYS VICTORIOUS... a notorious example is the proof now that Mussolini was an MI6 Agent...
Each time i suspect more and more that Comunism, Fascism, and Anarchism were all created or "supported to be controlled" by the freemasons secret societies...
I Found that Kropotkin, Proudhom were Freemasons.... but about Bakunin, many supiscious in the web, but few or none proofs.. There's a letter of Bakunin, where he talks about the freemasons, as an International of the Burgeousie...

So, i ask, you, what proofs, and not just simples indicators, do you have of Bakunin being a Freemason ?

Regards, and keep your courage !

[ZOMG SEEKRIT HANDSHAKES!]

Kropotkin [not] Bakunin

According to this lady, you've got that backwards:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9389077343
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 4367631987

Two parts. I forgot which one discusses it, but they're both about anarchy and worth watching.

Not that any of this matters, since Freemasonry is a red herring, and since even Hitler would be worth listening to if he said anything profound or enlightening or wise, as both Kropotkin and Bakunin did. But it's important even for loons to get their facts straight.

[Guest]

Dear ZOMG,

maybe your english is too better to me to understand it..
can you explain me, "what backwards" do i have ??? I watched the videos... they're boring... the conversation is utopic, just about "Perfect ideas", which i doubt that they can be achieved by human nature... it's sounds more like a Preacher conversation....
And... what is an "re herring" ? What is a "loon" ? Am i a "loon" ?

Thanx

[nihda]

Ok, ZOMG....

It was on the second video...
so, what i got from her, about this subject were mostly 2 points:

1 - Although Marxists (She hate Marxist coz of the authority, but in pratice Anarchist follow leaders also, by charisma, informally, but they do it... look at Durruti, for instance) were Freemason at higher levels, Anarchists who were Freemasons never reached the high levels.... so ? in the lower level's they weren't manipulated ?

2 - Kropotkin might not be a Freemason becoz on "Anarchist morality" he wrote that masonry it's another form of religion, and he was Atheistic.... hmmmm... so, why whas he involved in the Zurich Lodges ? is that an hoax ?

Thanx for the videos, anyway

[nihda]

Oh no... i can she talk about the evil Rockefellers, etc, and speak about anarcho-comunism in israel, and anarchy of jehova in the torah, etc,etc, without mentioning sionism ot the rothchilds ? hmmmm, strange no ?

Isn't already public the Alliance of Masonry/Sionism/Vatican/England-german Royal Blood ?

The Rothchild's own a very good part of the capital of the Bank of England, the place where Vatican deposit's it's money

[Guest]

A "red herring" is a distraction from what's important. So if you want to throw the hounds off your trail, you can drop a stinky fish behind you. Freemasonry is a red herring, a distraction from what ought to be the focus of our attention. Well-meaning would-be freedom-fighters (e.g., right-"libertarians") are eternally being thrown off the trail and getting caught up in nonsense like Freemasonry, the Illuminati, the NWO, the FED, the NAU, 9/11 "truth," etc.

[Guest]

I should have added, these issues, whether real or imagined, all fall under the headings of "capitalism" and "the State." These ought to be the collective focus of all freedom-fighters. Instead, we remain divided and conquered.

The same holds on the Left, with activists fighting racism, sexism, homophobia, etc., which all fall under the same headings (capitalism & the State). The difference, however, is that these things are very real indeed; and it would be unconscionable to suggest that we ignore them while fighting capitalism and the State, because the interim suffering would be equally real. So activists on the Left are in a more difficult position, as usual.

[frankzappa]

Please dont come here and talking your silliness 'guest'. You would prefer the abstract entity of capitalism or fascism? A joke position and argument at all times. Freemasonry is the driving force behind all social movements. Examine the relationship of freemasonry to left right fascism and you will come to a very different conclusion. According to Gramsci (a very notable and respected Marixst) freemasonry was the organising centr of all the traditional forces supporting the state. You need to read my earlier posts before you come here talking your shit.

By the way another interpretation of the word G-ORE is the ORE of G or ORGY.

God bless you for your Kind words Nihda. You are obviously a soldier and ready to fight. Your research of the freemasonry of Portugal sounds fascinating. The same story of Masonic subversion is repeated in every country throughout history. Please read pages 1, 2 and 3 of this thread, all the relevant information including the reference to Bakunin lodge membership is included, plus lots of supporting information. Short of a photograph with Bakunin dressed with blindfold and one trouser rolled up I don’t know what further proof we should expect.

Each time i suspect more and more that Comunism, Fascism, and Anarchism were all created or "supported to be controlled" by the freemasons secret societies...

You are correct 100% and I couldn’t agree more with you when you said. This is the exact same conclusion all my research and life experience leads me to. As you said:

they play in ALL SIDES, to get ALWAYS VICTORIOUS...

Freemasonry is a red herring only for those who wish to remain asleep. But the fool who went by the name of ZOMG SEEKRIT HANDSHAKES! Was correct about one thing, that it is important to read all sources of information including that which eminated from freemasons, but what they say in their books and what they were really about are two different things.

Regarding some of the earleir points made. Bakunins freemasonry is well documented down to his registration at the below mentioned lodge.

Mikhail Bakunin, Russian revolutionary, Lodge Il Progresso Sociale, Florence 1864
(Bakunin and the Italians, T. R.Ravindranathan,, McGill-Queen's University Press, 1988)

His hobnobing with prominent Italian masons of the time is also well documented, they even call themselves a brotherhood.

“The Italian anarchist movement virtually begins with Bakunins arrival.
I have shown already how in Florence Bakunin finally abandoned his early pan-Slavism and adopted anarchism as his revolutionary doctrine; as a consequence, the birth of anarchism in Italy co-incided with the birth of the international anarchist movement in its rudimentary prototype, the Florentine Brotherhood. I have also told what little is known of that short-lived organization, and I have described its successor, the International Brotherhood, as an event in Bakunin’s life and in the international development of anarchism. Here I shall discuss the International Brotherhood in so far as it can be regarded as an Italian movement.
In the constitutional documents drawn up by Bakunin and his immediate associates, the Italian section of the brotherhood was variously called La Societa per la Rivoluzione Democratica Sociale and La Societa dei Legionari della Rivoluzione Sociale Italiana. There is no reason to suppose that these were separate organizations; Bakunins passion for high sounding titles is enough to explain the duplication. The high command of the society seems to have co-incided roughly with Bakunins central committee of the international brotherhood in Naples. Several members of this caucus of initiated militants were later to play considerable parts in anarchist history. Giuseppe Fanelli, a veteran of 1848, was actually a deputy of the Italian parliament, but he fell so far under Bakunin’s spell that later he went on a strange but successful mission to convert the Spanish masses to anarchism. Saverio Friscia, a Sicilian homoepathic physician, was also a member of the Chamber of deputies, but more important to the international brotherhood as a thirty-third degree Freemason with great influence with the lodges of southern Italy. Carlo Gambuzzi, a Neapolitan lawyer, was to become a close personal friend Bakunin and the Lover of his wife Antonia, as well as remaining for many years as active leader of the Italian anarchist movement.
The last important member of this early elite was Alberto Tucci, another young Neapolitan lawyer.
Footnote: Bakunin himself, like Proudhon, was a freemason; a study has yet to be made of the links between Continental Freemasonry and the early anarchist movement” (P277, Anarchism: A History of Libertarian Ideas and Movement, George Woodcock, Broadview Press, 2004)

[Guest]

Stopped reading after you called capitalism an abstraction. The mode of production is a material reality. I'm constantly on my toes on the lookout for reification, so don't presume to catch me out on that front, you loonytune.

You go ahead and stay on the alert for seekrit handshakes and men warming their hands between the buttons of their coats. The oppressed peoples of the world appreciate your efforts.