Two Roads Not Taken

[Just Looking, Thanks]

Seems to me there's only two ways in which one can be totally free:

1. Destroy all systems which limit one’s freedom, or

2. Die.

I’m guessing none of you have chosen the second option, since you’re still conversing with one another, so I can only assume that you are all doing everything you can to bring about the first. Then again, if that were the case, you’d probably wind up with the second option anyway - but not by your own hand.

Lots of luck to you.

[Just Looking, Thanks]

On a totally unrelated note: Just how exactly do some of you folks (the ones who despise capitalism and corporations and such) get on the internet? Surely you don’t subscribe to an internet service provider such as AOL, Comcast, or some other evil corporate entity, do you? (I would be so disillusioned if that were the case.)

Obviously, you’ve found some way to express your views on the net while at the same time bypassing these multi-national monsters. Do tell, please. I’m tired of paying $19.95 a month.

Thanks.

[Crustanarchy]

You can't live without giving in some sort of way. I wouldn't expect you too, nor do I of other people. Why do you expect me to live without the comforts around me? I don't think it's justified to say that you shouldn't enjoy life with whatever tools available even though some of those tools are in use because of our masters dominating foreigners.

What's the point of your criticisms?

[secretsdntmakefrends]

i have tried the second option, but when i failed, i decided i would do my best to follow the first option,

Seems to me there's only two ways in which one can be totally free:

1. Destroy all systems which limit one’s freedom, or

2. Die.

I’m guessing none of you have chosen the second option, since you’re still conversing with one another, so I can only assume that you are all doing everything you can to bring about the first. Then again, if that were the case, you’d probably wind up with the second option anyway - but not by your own hand.

Lots of luck to you.

[Just Looking, Thanks]

To Crustanarchy:

No point, really. Just having a bit of fun. After all, that’s all the internet’s for anyway.

I’ve learned, after quite a few years of viewing thousands of “serious discussions“ in hundreds of forums, that the internet, instead of an “information superhighway”, is really nothing more than just another entertainment medium. None of it can, or should, be taken seriously. (Indeed, in order to preserve one’s mental health, most of it shouldn’t be taken, period.) Sadly, there are many who do take it seriously. My apologies - and sympathies - to those of you who do.

At least I should commend you for your honesty. A hypocrite who admits his hypocrisy at least has that virtue going for him. As for expecting you to live in a certain way (i.e.: in a manner consistent with your ideals): I never expect that from anyone. Rest easy.


To secretsdntmakefrends:

If at first you don’t succeed: Try, try again.


And to the remainder of the Rebel Alliance:

Honestly (and I don’t mean this in any spiteful or vindictive way), after reading many of the threads here, I can’t help but see most of you as little children playing “Revolutionaries” in much the same way as my friends and I once played “Cowboys and Indians” when we were small. (Although I suppose the correct verbiage nowadays would be “Bovine Persons and Native Americans”.)

I suppose I could sign up here and regularly comment on the vast difference between an anarchist and a wannabe anarchist, or between those who have actually put their lives on the line for liberty and those who merely post about doing so from the comfort of their parents’ basement. After awhile (quite a short while, I’m sure) such commentary would not only antagonize most of you but (which is worse) also bore the hell out of me. So, rather than do either, I instead wish you well.

Fight the power. Or don’t. Makes no difference either way. In the long run, all of us are destined for option number two.

[Crustanarchy]

And what makes you Mr. Perfect? Get off your high horse.

And actually, contrary to your personal opinion about the internet, it is indeed an information superhighway, almost none of it is controlled. You can find ANYTHING for FREE if you don't pay for your internet. That's awesome. I'm not denying it's an entertainment tool as all action that is fun to a person is. And pretty much every person who lives in a capitalist/democratic country is a hypocrite in some sort of way. It's the society we live in and sometimes that shit just rubs off on you. You can try and resist for as long as you can, but sometimes you will be brought into a position where you will have to commit hypocrisy, it's almost unavoidable.

But then again, of course, the average U.S. American doesn't a flying fuck about virtue or honesty. Or living according to "ideals". And if you are going to judge me according to MY ideals than I'm not a hypocrite. I'm fucking broke, I practically give away my money. I share everything which is consistent with my thought process. I don't force myself upon anyone, I always tell people if they got a problem with me, just tell me and we can talk it out. I barely get into stupid conflicts and try to avoid them at all costs. As to my beliefs about money, I think we could do better without money, but if I want to live comfortably, I have to play the little money game sometimes. I don't see where I'm a hypocrite. So far in my relationships with friends, I try and talk things out and reason. And my friends although most aren't anarchist, fight with me to oust anyone who tried taking charge of our group of friends. So far we have kicked (not literally) out two authoritarian bastards who just couldn't be reasoned with. I'm not against technology so I use it to entertain and inform me. I don't believe we are causing global warming so I do drive. So far in most hierarchy's I've been involved with, I'm the outspoken rebel and everyone knows it. I shake up the hierarchies, because I always try to be as equal and even as possible. If my boss expects something of me, even though he doesn't expect it of himself, I expect it of him, because a true leader leads by example. Of course, no boss follows their rules. And I always point that out in front of everybody and undermine their authority. My bosses are currently trying to get me to quit my job. Gave me a week suspension for chewing gum and "talking back". Notice this is in an adult environment (a grocery store) and I'm being suspended for "talking back". Wtf am I still in grade school? Sorry for the rant.

[Just Looking, Thanks]

Mr. Perfect? Aw, shucks. Such flattery makes me blush. Stop it. Please. You’re much too kind. (As for the horse: Don’t have one. Like you, I drive a car.)

It’s not perfection I seek - in myself or anyone else. Only a bit - a tiny crumb - of consistency. Of course, a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds - for example, continuing to affirm a set of values while in practice neglecting them is rather silly. You are quite correct, however, in pointing out that we all share this trait to varying degrees.

As for our differing views concerning the Al Gore Memorial Superhighway: I’m afraid we’ll just have to agree to disagree. You see the internet as a treasure trove of valuable information. I see it, like television, as simply a vehicle in which bullshit can travel at the speed of light. C’est la vie.

You say that the average American doesn’t give an aerial fornication about virtue and honesty. Not having seen an average American (or an average anything, for that matter) I couldn’t say. I only know that I don’t.

Surprised? Not when you consider that honesty is what others tell you that you should have so that they can more easily behave dishonestly toward you. Not when you are called upon to be virtuous so that those who require this of you may more easily hand you a raw deal. (Then again, they get whatever it is they want, and you get the emotional satisfaction which comes from believing that you’re a martyr or a saint; so I suppose it’s an equitable transaction after all.)

This is not to say that I don’t have any personal standards - a “code of honor”, if you will. It’s just that I’m keenly aware that it wouldn’t really make any difference if I possessed one or not. I have long given up the myth that there’s an afterlife and that the gods will judge me for my actions here on earth, or that future generation will judge me. Future generations - if there will be any - won’t care one bit what I do or don’t do, nor should they. The globe will keep on spinning - with or without me.

Barring accident or infirmity, I suppose I have twenty, maybe twenty-five years of life left to me. After that, I am food for the worms. A hundred thousand years from now, you and I - and even the most famous people living today - will not even be a memory to whoever (or whatever) inherits this vale of tears. The thought that, in the long run, nothing matters, used to bother me a great deal. It doesn’t now.

When you get to the point where you realize that nothing matters, then you discover that everything matters now. You have today. You can enjoy it, or you can struggle though it, if that’s what makes you happy. But do it because that’s what you want to do - not because you feel you owe it to future generations or to a man with a long white beard who lives in the sky, or to some code that you think you should live by.

You can eat, drink, and be merry, or you can sympathize, empathize, and try to imitate the struggles of those who don’t have it as good as you do. Either way, it makes no difference in the long run. It only makes a difference to you. Today. Admit to yourself that your beliefs and your practices are, in the end, self-serving - simply a way to give your life meaning to yourself, and not because it will somehow “make a difference” - and you will find peace.

And that’s my rant. Depressing? Perhaps to you, but not to me. I am at peace.

Carpe diem. It’s all you can do.

[|Y|]

WEP encrypted access points are highly accessable in any major city, there are about 30 in my local vicinity and I hop around at whim. Don't see what the issue is, though I would not "slight" anarchists for paying for internet when they may not have the choice to do otherwise.

Tell me I can't make a free internet though.

[Just Looking, Thanks]

I assume you mean they have no choice if they want to go online. I’m sure you will agree that they do have a choice as to whether or not to go on the internet at all. Being online is certainly not a requirement for anyone. You can take it or leave it alone.

So, in fact they do have a choice: They can feed the “corporate beast“, or they can choose not to by not going online at all. (That is, if they don’t have access to the service you mentioned. There are still one or two of us folks who don’t live anywhere near those wonderful centers of culture which you call “cities”, however, so what you‘re talking about is not universal.)

Of course, all of this - like the rest of the discussion here - is academic. I’m sure everyone here, if honest, each has a list of what I’m sure they would call “minor inconsistencies” between their ideals and their actual practices. There are no saints - only folks who insist upon fooling themselves into believing they are.

I don’t know if you can make a free internet or not. I suspect not. Everything - even the air we breathe - has a cost. What may be free to one may cost another dearly. We can ignore the cost to others and pretend that what we get is free, but that’s only another self-delusion. Sometimes the cost is one’s own integrity, and each “minor inconsistency” chips away - little by little - at the great monument one makes of oneself.

[Crustanarchy]

I see the internet as an amazing tool to share ideas, whether you think those ideas are "serious" or not. And the way I see it, creation was brought about by billions of years of mass colliding with mass, etc. and so I think the best and most efficient way to create new theories or whatever is to brainstorm or just simply share ideas, given those ideas are liable to criticism.

Although, I'd rather see anarchists locally taking up the initiative to organize face-to-face brainstorms. Like monthly or bi-weekly meetings. I know some anarchist groups in Chicago do weekly and bi-weekly meetings, like the A.B.C. and local Food Not Bombs. Sometimes, though, I like the anonymous aspect of the internet, although I wouldn't mind having the discussions we have on here face-to face either.

Almost every action a human takes is self-serving. That's the way of life I believe. But I also think there can be moments of pure altruism which are usually are molded into a tool of self-service. I don't see any self-service in saving your friend from being run over on the highway, for example. (Cause he walked out on the pavement ,cause he was fuckin' wasted). But usually after the event, you expect your friend to do a favor for you or whatever. I do see self-service in fighting authority though. Doesn't make it bad or corrupt.

[Guest]

the internet was created by state socialism, not the corporations. even the intel/amd chips in your computer came about because of us tax injections into ventures like sematech and others.

i dont know why someone in their 60s would find berating young people for their politics to be 'entertaining.' must be a slow week/month/year/life.

fighting for 'true liberty' isn't something most people would know about, especially not veterans of state-backed wars. you 'fight' for your masters, not for freedom or liberty - with very rare exception (bangladesh vs. pakistan, native american vs american, palestinian vs israeli, vietnam vs. khmer rouge to name a few). the same people funded the nazis and the bolsheviks. the same people who fought against vietnames communists turned around and supported cambodian communists.

anarchists are the only faction that is actually fighting for freedom. they are the one and only faction that tried to prevent bush II from becoming president, while every other faction just sat on their hands and went "oh well, that's how the system works!" that anarchists are a tiny and marginalized minority might make it seem that anarchists are delusional, but then what does that make our critic - who seeks out a tiny, marginalized group in order to confront/debate/belittle it?

unless of course, we aren't such a minority, or so marginalized...

but hey, you get a point for posting in the criticism section at least...

[Guest]

Just a few corrections/notes to the tirade above:

1. I don’t recall making the statement that the internet was a corporate entity, only that most ISP’s are.

2. Also don’t recall saying I was in my 60’s either. (I’m not, by the way.)

3. I find it entertaining to watch fundamentalists (no matter their stripe) squirm and wiggle.

4. I’ve never served in the military. (Your batting average just gets lower and lower.)

5. Good job on thwarting G. W.’s plans for global domination. I’m sure one of your posts here did the trick.

6. I am, as you would say, a troll. (I prefer the term “critical observer” myself, but that’s a matter of taste. You say tomayto. I say tomahto.) That’s the reason I’m picking on you poor, marginalized people. Also, I was invited. You folks shouldn’t invite confrontation/debate/belittlement (is that a word? doesn’t matter) if you don’t mean it.

7. Allow me to ease your mind. You are a minority. Whether or not you feel marginalized is up to you.

8. I don’t keep score, but thanks for the point. I will cherish it, along with your comments, for nanoseconds to come.

[Just Looking, Thanks]

My apologies. The above post is my own. I could say that I chose not to reveal myself in a spirit of solidarity with the "Guest" that posted before me, but the truth is I just plain forgot.

[Just Looking, Thanks]

I do see self-service in fighting authority though. Doesn't make it bad or corrupt.

Not at all. I totally agree.

[Just Looking, Thanks]

anarchists are the only faction that is actually fighting for freedom.

Yes, it's sad. The list of the dead, missing, and wounded from flame wars on internet discussion boards is enough to make one weep.