Two Roads Not Taken

[birthday pony]

Yes, it's sad. The list of the dead, missing, and wounded from flame wars on internet discussion boards is enough to make one weep.

Nothing going on in Greece.

[Just Looking, Thanks]

Yes, but those are real anarchists, are they not?

[Just Looking, Thanks]

Sorry. I meant were, not are. Sorry.

[Crustanarchy]

Not just looking anymore, are we? I'm pretty sure Bakunin didn't physically involve himself in war, though I can't say if he would given the chance. I personally would. I don't know why you think the posters here aren't "real" anarchists. It all starts in the mind, this is just a tool of expression to build upon the mind. I hope that people who think like you do about the internet (you seem to take this more seriously then I do, or most of the posters on the forum) are a minority.

I've been acquainted with plenty of anarchists who post on forums like these who are actively involved in helping another human being, discussion, or protest/activism. Although, I haven't been involved in any sort of direct action or protest except in my relationships. I'm not personally ready to go out and travel the country going from collective to collective. Maybe when I'm more secure mentally and economically. Then again I'm sure there are plenty of people who find ways of traveling and living without paying a dime.

I think you're being unfair and are not being critical at all. You're stuck in your age. I think older people have experienced too much of this crappy ass existence (for most, always exceptions) and have become complacent cynical assholes. You think you're being critical, but I think you're being close minded.

[|Y|]

Just Looking, Thanks,

They can feed the “corporate beast“, or they can choose not to by not going online at all. (That is, if they don’t have access to the service you mentioned. There are still one or two of us folks who don’t live anywhere near those wonderful centers of culture which you call “cities”, however, so what you‘re talking about is not universal.)

I think you should change your nickname to "Just Stating the Obvious."

I kid.

The point was that you asserted that one could not go online without contributed to the corporate world. I dispute that emmensely. I am doing it. There is no conflict here. I watch TV shows, movies, listen to music, and even pirate books, all without "contributing" to any system of corporate control. None, nada.

Now I am not saying I am completely emancipated from that control, however, I am merely saying that in certain aspects of my life it simply does not exist. I envision that this can be the case for the other parts of my life.

I don’t know if you can make a free internet or not. I suspect not. Everything - even the air we breathe - has a cost. What may be free to one may cost another dearly. We can ignore the cost to others and pretend that what we get is free, but that’s only another self-delusion. Sometimes the cost is one’s own integrity, and each “minor inconsistency” chips away - little by little - at the great monument one makes of oneself.

I don't see why not, the laws of physics do not preclude us from have a free internet. Now mind you, by "free" I do not mean completely and utterly without cost, because that would be impossible (the second law of thermodynamics does not allow anything to come at no cost). However, the cost to you, socially, economically, monetarily, can undoubtedly be free.

In the same way that you are writing something which is passing through servers which are being hosted by someone kind enough to do so, the path which your data has transversed having crossed through dozens of routers and servers running on free operating systems.

You have just magically contributed to my existance, albeit in a rather asinine way. I look forward to a world where people contribute without even necessarily wanting to or even knowing that they're contributing.

Just like that breath that you took just now, which you self admittedly wasn't free.

But almost certainly you didn't have to pay for it!

BTW, anyone know what the difference is between state socialism and corporatism? 'cause I'm at a loss as to figure out how they differ.

[Yarrow]

also, if the internet is nothing but shit it's your own fault. and critical observers don't make fun or insult folk- they criticise.

honesty is what others tell you that you should have so that they can more easily behave dishonestly toward you

now that is sad. remind me never to help you...

[Guest]

lol, my isp is a local school district. 1 paid staffer, the rest are volunteers. most of the people in this county use it as their isp, snd support it with their tax dollars.

mr thanks, i dont think you are a troll (because you are posting in the crit section), but i don't think you're here for honest debate, either. i'll never understand the joy some people get from this sort of blah blah - i know i certainly dont go to forums to antagonize people with different political views. on those rare occasions that i have visited with a question or in search of honest debate, i know how to conduct myself with respect.

it's all nice that you were invited here, but to what end? entertainment? seems a bit silly to me, and definitely worthy of a 'get a life' or two.

should you be willing to drop the pejoratives and antagonism, i'm sure you would find a healthy, respectful, honest debate here. won't hold my breath, of course.

[Guest]

Hope you don’t mind that I’m throwing all this together, but I’m much to lazy to fool around with the “quote” function:

Not just looking anymore, are we?

Oh, yes. Still looking, though not for much longer. I’ve managed to slog through about one-third of the material at this forum. The rest I’ll copy so that I can have a chuckle or two later on. (As one of you pointed out: It’s been a slow life.)

I don't know why you think the posters here aren't "real" anarchists.

Pretty much for the same reason I don’t consider fundamentalist Christians to be “real” Christians.

It all starts in the mind . . .

From what I’ve seen, for most it ends there, too.

I hope that people who think like you do about the internet (you seem to take this more seriously then I do, or most of the posters on the forum) are a minority.

Rest easy. We are definitely a minority. Not marginalized, homogenized or pasteurized, but we are a minority.

I've been acquainted with plenty of anarchists who post on forums like these who are actively involved in helping another human being, discussion, or protest/activism. Although, I haven't been involved in any sort of direct action or protest except in my relationships. I'm not personally ready to go out and travel the country going from collective to collective. Maybe when I'm more secure mentally and economically. Then again I'm sure there are plenty of people who find ways of traveling and living without paying a dime.

Lots of luck with that. I mean it. Really. It’s possible you won’t end up like some of the others here who, no doubt, pleasure themselves physically while reading their dog-eared copies of Uber Revolte or Das Kapital.

I think you're being unfair and are not being critical at all.

Probably.

You're stuck in your age.

Who isn’t?

I think older people have experienced too much of this crappy ass existence (for most, always exceptions) and have become complacent cynical assholes.

Can’t argue with you there. But don’t judge me until you’ve walked a mile in my support hose.

You think you're being critical, but I think you're being close minded.

(Tomayto. Tomahto.)

I think you should change your nickname to "Just Stating the Obvious."

I like it. But stating the obvious does have its place - especially when conversing with the oblivious.

I kid.

So do I, kid. So do I.

Now I am not saying I am completely emancipated from that control, however, I am merely saying that in certain aspects of my life it simply does not exist. I envision that this can be the case for the other parts of my life.

Nothing wrong with having a vision. Works better when all blinders are removed, however.

I don't see why not, the laws of physics do not preclude us from have a free internet.

The laws of human behavior do, though. Sorry.

In the same way that you are writing something which is passing through servers which are being hosted by someone kind enough to do so, the path which your data has transversed having crossed through dozens of routers and servers running on free operating systems.

Gee, and I thought there was a little pixie in my computer who runs back and forth along the wires. Why, all these new-fangled contraptions are just wondrous, ain’t they?

You have just magically contributed to my existance, albeit in a rather asinine way.

You’ve made my day, too.

I look forward to a world where people contribute without even necessarily wanting to or even knowing that they're contributing.

That happens now. It’s called a payroll tax deduction.

Just like that breath that you took just now, which you self admittedly wasn't free.
But almost certainly you didn't have to pay for it!

Sure I do. Oxygen is a caustic agent which slowly destroys living tissue. Of course, the alternative (not breathing) gets the job done faster. Six of one . . .

BTW, anyone know what the difference is between state socialism and corporatism? 'cause I'm at a loss as to figure out how they differ.

Beats me. I’m still trying to figure out something I read at a Catholic forum I visited last week. I still can’t figure out how a cracker turns into the flesh of a two thousand year old dead Jew whenever a priest mumbles over it. Wonders abound.

also, if the internet is nothing but shit it's your own fault.

Sometimes, it is my fault. Most of the time, I have help. (Thanks, by the way.)

and critical observers don't make fun or insult folk- they criticise.

Okay, call me a troll then. Whichever makes you feel better. I'm flexible.

now that is sad. remind me never to help you...

I don’t think a reminder will be necessary.

lol, my isp is a local school district. 1 paid staffer, the rest are volunteers. most of the people in this county use it as their isp, snd support it with their tax dollars.

And, therefore, not free, no? To the taxpayers, that is.

mr thanks, i dont think you are a troll (because you are posting in the crit section), but i don't think you're here for honest debate, either. i'll never understand the joy some people get from this sort of blah blah - i know i certainly dont go to forums to antagonize people with different political views. on those rare occasions that i have visited with a question or in search of honest debate, i know how to conduct myself with respect.

Good for you.

it's all nice that you were invited here, but to what end?

You’d have to ask the folks who invited me. You know them better than I do.

entertainment?

Yeppers.

seems a bit silly to me, and definitely worthy of a 'get a life' or two.

Sorry, sonny. One’s all you get.

should you be willing to drop the pejoratives and antagonism, i'm sure you would find a healthy, respectful, honest debate here.

I’ve seen examples of the healthy, respectful and honest debate here, so I’m sure you meant that as a joke.

won't hold my breath, of course.

No. Don’t do that. I mentioned something about that earlier.


Well, kiddies, I normally spend one week per forum, but I think I’ve gotten all the chuckles I’m going to get here. It’s been a pleasure to visit you all here at the Circle A Ranch. (Like most ranches, there were one or two braying jackasses and lots of manure lying about.)

Unlike most trolls, I don’t hang around too long. Only long enough to say this: Turn off your machines and take a long walk outside in the fresh air. And don’t take things so seriously. Life’s much too short.

Take care, all.

[Just Looking, Thanks]

Dang it! Forgot the name again! The above is mine (as if you didn't know).

So long.

[Crustanarchy]

Quite full of yourself. And Guest is right you aren't here to debate issues with your own knowledge. You've gone through them in your head and probably thought up some examples that prove most anarchist theory wrong. But the problem with that is, your examples have many variables, like life. And I find to truly find out if you're speaking the truth in calling as "delusional" like fundamentalist christians who believe a guy named Leeroy Jenkins can speak to God or whatever and touch you, curing whatever disease/illness you may have.

I hope you know that none of subtle insults were taken personally for they are without any backing. Age isn't a backing. Sarcasm isn't either. I can tell you're quite intelligent, I wish you'd use that intellect to actually discovery who are the true enemies of freedom. Surely it's not anarchists.

So long, and like most trolls you come here with a wall around your mind and a thousand archers ready to attack anything near. And it's not even in defense. You insult a few people, directly or subtly, and toss around a few nifty jokes and run away. Never staying long enough to actually TALK to the anarchists here about anarchism or anything progressive that actually expands the knowledge of both participants.

Your knowledge must be too good for us crazies.

[No Longer Looking. Bye.]

I like you, kid. I really do. So I’m going to break one of my own rules, post this one last time, and share this with you:

I used the fundamentalist analogy because they speak (and think) in slogans, not ideas. (May as well converse with a goddamn bumper sticker). They think that some literature - literature that supports their world-view - is great, and that other works are trash because such works oppose that view. Ditto with people. They have their own little vocabulary - their own code words which only the almighty insiders are privy to, or can understand, and which the rest of the world is too stupid to comprehend.

There are other similarities, but you get the idea. You’re not stupid.

If you want to be an anarchist, then fine and dandy. Coming here, for you, may have been a good first step. But if it’s the only step you’re ever going to take, then you’re just standing around complaining like the rest of these losers. DO SOMETHING, for chrissake! And do it because it’s what you want to do - not because some old fart from the 19th century says that it’s a good idea.

If I hadn’t been copying from here on my way out as you posted, I would have missed your reply, and would not have bothered to answer. Life’s like that. I hope you have a long and happy one.

[Guest]

good luck with that whole "getting a life" thing... maybe you should take your own advice and go outside...i'm mean it's a 'good first step.'

[Crustanarchy]

I see what he's saying. I wish we could have continued and actually progressed to something instead of him coming here demonstrating exactly what he's against. To me, by not bothering to honestly debate the issues he has with anarchism or the people who frequent this forum, he's telling me that his knowledge is so objective and non-biased that he shouldn't even bother to share it with us.

[|Y|]

Just Looking, Thanks,

Nothing wrong with having a vision. Works better when all blinders are removed, however.

Oh, all my blinders are most certainly removed! I'm open to all sorts of criticism which is why I am not "intimidated" by your line of questioning (as others seem, here).

The laws of human behavior [preclude us from having a free internet], though. Sorry.

It's too bad you're no longer posting, because it'd be interesting to know what your evidence is for "laws of human behavior." I would think that current consumer trends are in the face of capitalist logic and reason, and show that in fact, in the right environment, human behavior is in direct opposition to it.

Gee, and I thought there was a little pixie in my computer who runs back and forth along the wires. Why, all these new-fangled contraptions are just wondrous, ain’t they?

So you dismiss all that free software, why? *sigh* Too bad you won't be responding.

I look forward to a world where people contribute without even necessarily wanting to or even knowing that they're contributing.

That happens now. It’s called a payroll tax deduction.

Ahh, but a payroll tax deduction is explicit, I am talking on a more nuanced level. You exhale carbon dioxide it is going to contribute to the environment. You really have no choice but to contribute back. But there's no system in place that people run and control to maintain your breathing.

Sure I do. Oxygen is a caustic agent which slowly destroys living tissue. Of course, the alternative (not breathing) gets the job done faster. Six of one . . .

Your body becoming more entropic is a natural consequence of the second law of thermodynamics. That is control you are unable to get away from. But certainly you didn't have to pay money, work, or any plethroa of things typically "required" in current society to take that breath. Your environment naturally evolved you to be this way.

Beats me.

You'll be missed, but probably not because of your lack of insightful commentary.

[birthday pony]

You know, if we weren't bound to capitalist industries we wouldn't have much of a case would we? If one could just "quit" capitalism and live completely independent of the state with little or no struggle there wouldn't be much of a reason for Anarchists now would there? My point is that Anarchists exist because we are chained to capitalism and the state. If we could choose as easily as just looking seems to think we could then why would we organize?