Private property is necessary

[Guest]

Im sorry my anarchist friends. No advanced (beyond agriculture and basic tools) economy is possible without a price system. This price system cannot be "simulated" or avoided, since economic coordination on a scale sufficient enough to allow for more than basic and simple production and products is impossible without its coordinating role. <br> <br>Of course, private property is the institution that allows for free prices to emerge, ergo allowing for benefits over costs (efficiency or increased wealth/production). <br> <br>I sympathize with you guys wanting to abolish the State, but you need to leave private property (anarcho-capitalism) since only 10 millon people (in the U.S. territory) would survive on such a basic economic system as the one possible without private property. For more information, read Ludwig von Mises on the impossibility of economic calculation on the socialist commonwealth. No private property, no prices, no cost-accounting, no efficient allocation of resources beyond a few households, no complex products or services are possible. <br> <br>Best Regards, <br> <br>Contact me a juanfer76@yahoo.com for further discussion. <br> <br>

[Guest]

the bible says that growing a beard is an abomination against god.

[Rjak]

The ECA has been refuted over and over. The World Socialist Movement has some interesting articles on the issue. Their website is www.worldsocialism.org. Due to the way the website functions, I'm pretty sure I can't really link you to the right articles, I'm afraid. Also, Kropotkin has written some very interesting stuff about the organization of anarchist society.

[Jemmy_Hope]

What a fool I've been! There I was struggling against inequality, injustice and exploitation, and all I was doing was blocking the road to Paradise. I pray to St. Murray Rothbard to intercede with Mammon for my forgiveness. From now on I vow to be a greedy, thieving bastard for the sake of humanity.

[Aaron]

[color=green]I sympathize with you guys wanting to abolish the State, but you need to leave private property (anarcho-capitalism) since only 10 millon people (in the U.S. territory) would survive on such a basic economic system as the one possible without private property.</font color=green> <br> <br>Private property is a state. Prove to me that it is not.

[Guest]

No thieving in peaceful exchanges, such as this or with any product of human ingenuity. Sorry!

[Guest]

Im sorry. Mises never backed off from the economic calculation problem concept. <br> <br>The USSR DID have private property: 4% of the farms where private and produced more than 30% of the agricultural output. They relied on capitalism for that and for a fake price system, based on copying the preexisting price relations and copying prices from capitalist countries catalogs. That and 18000 economists trying to create fake prices. Never worked, no right amount of screws where produced on any year for making the big machines work at factories. No advanced economic coordination is possible without prices. That´s why the managers bought things at the black market. Socialism is self-defeating.

[Aaron]

Hey, I asked you guys to prove that private property is necessary. Now, do it.

[Guest]

it's you guy, not you guys.

[bongo]

Im sorry my anarchist friends. No advanced (beyond agriculture and basic tools) economy is possible without a price system. This price system cannot be "simulated" or avoided, since economic coordination on a scale sufficient enough to allow for more than basic and simple production and products is impossible without its coordinating role. <br> <br>Of course, private property is the institution that allows for free prices to emerge, ergo allowing for benefits over costs (efficiency or increased wealth/production). <br> <br>I sympathize with you guys wanting to abolish the State, but you need to leave private property (anarcho-capitalism) since only 10 millon people (in the U.S. territory) would survive on such a basic economic system as the one possible without private property. For more information, read Ludwig von Mises on the impossibility of economic calculation on the socialist commonwealth. No private property, no prices, no cost-accounting, no efficient allocation of resources beyond a few households, no complex products or services are possible. <br> <br>Best Regards, <br> <br>Contact me a juanfer76@yahoo.com for further discussion. <br> <br>sadly <br>everyone who says this looks lustfully towards the time when they get to deny somebody else the right to live somewhere or eat. <br> <br>"But the State says that you can't eat that. sorry. i know you may be starving, but you should have gotten a job and worshipped the State with your life's blood. now you must starve and die because private property is necessary. without that delusion, how could we subjugate you? <br> <br>"oh, also all you indegeounous people, we put some lines on a piece of paper so now you can only life there if you give us these slugs and pieces of paper we have printed up. <br> <br>"How do you get them? Oh, slave labor. It will eat your soul and numb your heart so you can't ever fight back and calim any freewill or autonomy." <br> <br>"Oh you want a solution? i suggest Socialism. if you organize there goes all your spantaneaity, that's perfect for us, the State, bvecause spntaneous people's actions can't be predicted." <br> <br>Remember, conform or be crushed. <br> <br> <br>

[Sandino]

But by saying that private property is nessecary are you taking a Proudhon style veiw where you wish it wasnt essential, or a non-anarchist veiw where it is desirable and here to stay? And by private property do you mean social private property like factories, machines, land etc. or personal private property like clothes, food, utensils etc.?

[Guest]

advocating 'anarcho-capitalism' and spouting Ludwig von Mises, i surmise it's the latter view for the first, and both for the second.

[Yhcrana]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr><p>This price system cannot be "simulated"...<p><hr></blockquote> <br> <br>And, assuming it could, it would not be desirable. <br> <br> <br><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr><p>...or avoided, since economic coordination on a scale sufficient enough to allow for more than basic and simple production and products is impossible without its coordinating role.<p><hr></blockquote> <br> <br>I am sorry, what "coordinating role" are you talking about? What exactly is the nature of the "coordinating role" of private property? Furthermore, what definition of "private property" are you using?

[Da Smokin' M&N]

for its a personal possession

[jacobhaller]

Question 1: Are precise economic calculations necessary? Or does 'spare time' allow enough margin for error.

Question 2: Is a price system necessary for these economic calculations? Or can it be modelled?

Question 3: Is a price system capable of these economic calculations? Consider overproduction crises.

Question 4: If a price system is necessary, does it require private property?

Question 5: If private property is necessary, does it result in Aubaine? Or does an anarchist market drive interest rates to 0?

So, you haven't proved your argument; and even if I accept your every step I just get to another form of market anarchism, not to ancapism.