Carnivorous Anarchists?

[TheThing]

Absolutely so, Francois!
Completely irrational and inflammatory. Makes one wonder why is it on every anarchist forum that this topics go on for tenfold in replies compared with real-life issues. Make a topic about taxes or how to minimize the impact of capitalism at least on ourselves and you have silence! Post a topic about how chickens are our equals and u have high emotions and bizzare logic going on and on. Do they do it deliberately to defocus the others or just finding their irrationality properly adressed on anarchist forums?

[Guest]

I know that a lot of anarchist are Vegitarian, or even better Vegan.
Yet I understand there to be a large number of meat-eaters that claim to be anarchistic.

Is it possible to be both an anarchist and a carnivore?

Shouldn't the ideas of a non-hierarchical system be extended and applied to all living beings?

Aren't the industries manufacturing meat, dairy, animal testing, animal products (clothes, shoes, lipsticks, glues etc) some of the major players in any capatilist regime?

I suppose this is a loaded question, but would like to hear the feedback.

Meat and veggie eater here. Why not apply it to all living things? Why do animals get spared and plants do not? That is a loaded question as well, but the truth is that we have to eat. When we become technologically advanced enought to make meals out of dirt or something not living, we are beholden to that law of nature. We are not separate from this earth we are part of it.

[Yarrow]

my point exactly. we don't need to eat animals to survive, but we do need to eat organic matter.

and please don't get me wrong, i identify with our species and prize our survival above theirs, but it's not a case of us or them. compassion applies to all living beings, but obviously we all make our own choices. i really don't see much inflammatory about this discussion, except some responses to fairly simple comparisons. On the chicken subject, what IS the difference? is it that we can't understand the chicken, don't befriend it, or just that it's inherently less useful to our society?

so my final statement: it IS possible to be omnivorous and anarchistic, but it's difficult to teach people to respect human life at all costs when animals are shown to be fair game for imprisonment, force-feeding and murder (and yes, i realise most of those terms only apply to adult humyns.) You can call killing a cow, or an unborn child, whatever you like).

[leadhead]

Ultimately your going to have to kill something to eat it. Weather you choose to kill plants or animals or both is just a choice you have to make.

How it relates to Anarchy? Well, I guess you would have to define anarchy as the more popular forms of anarchy on this board I wouldn't consider anarchy as I am just your plain jane shotgun sovereignty anarchist. In that anarchy, I will hunt, farm, fish and forage whatever is edible.

If mankind ever gets smart enough to live together and develop technologies that enhance the human experience without the existence of his/her own tyrannical societal structures. We could possibly develop food sources that are healthy and don't require the killing of life. When this happens, I will eat that instead of fruits, vegetables and meat.

[Zazaban]

If this was taken to its logical conclusion, we'd be eating nothing but salt. It has been shown that plants can mildly react to music. I don't know if it qualifies as conscious, but there's something there. Drawing an arbitrary line is dubious.

[Francois Tremblay]

Don't say that, you're gonna hurt salt's feelings.

[Garnier]

Don't say that, you're gonna hurt salt's feelings.

Hahahaha, i'm afraid so!
Nazi's had developed producing food from crude oil and charcoal due to severe shortages of food at the late stages of WW2.They made margarine,some sort of butter & cheese and other semi-edible products. Maybe one day science will futher their research and make something tasty out of oil.Some time after that'll happen, concerns about oil and charcoal feelings will pop-up from somewhere.

[leadhead]

An important thing to be aware of. Being a Vegan for all of it's very good reasons is a very good thing. However when envisioning your global collective anarchy, it is important to think 3 or 4 blocks down the road. If you try to mandate vegan principles somehow...the ones centered around animal rights...to everyone, your anarchy is going to be over before it even gets started because the same corrosive forces that undermine societies today will infiltrate it and push the animal rights button every time it comes into conflict with human individual choice. It would be a very enticing and powerful means of control.

[Garnier]

An important thing to be aware of. Being a Vegan for all of it's very good reasons is a very good thing. However when envisioning your global collective anarchy, it is important to think 3 or 4 blocks down the road. If you try to mandate vegan principles somehow...the ones centered around animal rights...to everyone, your anarchy is going to be over before it even gets started because the same corrosive forces that undermine societies today will infiltrate it and push the animal rights button every time it comes into conflict with human individual choice. It would be a very enticing and powerful means of control.

Absolutely true, well said comrade!
I'll add the same corrosive forces that divide anarchism today.

[scarydreams]

We could possibly develop food sources that are healthy and don't require the killing of life. When this happens, I will eat that instead of fruits, vegetables and meat.

aren't we already there?

[Zazaban]

We could possibly develop food sources that are healthy and don't require the killing of life. When this happens, I will eat that instead of fruits, vegetables and meat.

aren't we already there?

Plants are life.

[scarydreams]

ah didn't read that bit. still, i think we are at a point where most of us living in the industrialized world can eat an animal free diet without severe health repercussions.

[Guest]

An important thing to be aware of. Being a Vegan for all of it's very good reasons is a very good thing. However when envisioning your global collective anarchy, it is important to think 3 or 4 blocks down the road. If you try to mandate vegan principles somehow...the ones centered around animal rights...to everyone, your anarchy is going to be over before it even gets started because the same corrosive forces that undermine societies today will infiltrate it and push the animal rights button every time it comes into conflict with human individual choice. It would be a very enticing and powerful means of control.

sorry mate, i don't understand. what forces are you talking about?

If this was taken to its logical conclusion, we'd be eating nothing but salt.

don't think i could survive on salt. and i think you misunderstand the reasoning; if taken to it's logical conclusion people would weigh personal benefits against the suffering of others before they acted. for me at least, that's the issue here.

[leadhead]

An important thing to be aware of. Being a Vegan for all of it's very good reasons is a very good thing. However when envisioning your global collective anarchy, it is important to think 3 or 4 blocks down the road. If you try to mandate vegan principles somehow...the ones centered around animal rights...to everyone, your anarchy is going to be over before it even gets started because the same corrosive forces that undermine societies today will infiltrate it and push the animal rights button every time it comes into conflict with human individual choice. It would be a very enticing and powerful means of control.

sorry mate, i don't understand. what forces are you talking about?

People like GATS/WTO that use endangered species and human rights violations to usurp valuable resources from 3rd world state economies.

[Guest]

point taken, thankyou.

my thought on animal rights is that animals have as much right to live in comfort as we do. that is, all the moral right in the world, and absolutely no guarantee.