Savings and retirement

[Francois Tremblay]

I thought communists were against "hoarding."

[Yarrow]

i think the official line was anti-hoarding. under an oppressive system though, i'm sure people both rich and poor got stashing. much of USSR life seemed to be about under-the-radar survival.

[birthday pony]

I thought communists were against "hoarding."

I don't think having things counts as hoarding.

[Francois Tremblay]

Having things without using them counts as hoarding.

[birthday pony]

Having things without using them counts as hoarding.

Well retirement may not be a second home in Florida, but I don't see how someone who has enough to live on would be screwed by retiring. There's nothing inherently wrong with someone who has worked most their life to stop working in communist theory. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"
Obviously people at the age of retirement no longer have the same ability to work, but still yield a need for goods.

[Francois Tremblay]

Yea, that's what the theory says, but you have to admit that there is less security in having to depend on others' benevolence or belief in communism than in using your own resources in a relatively egalitarian society.

[birthday pony]

Yea, that's what the theory says, but you have to admit that there is less security in having to depend on others' benevolence or belief in communism than in using your own resources in a relatively egalitarian society.

Probably. Theory addresses it though.

There's insecurities and risks with all types of systems. It all goes down in 2012 anyway, so who gives a shit, eh?

[Francois Tremblay]

Yea, that's the attitude...

[birthday pony]

I don't think I'll ever learn that tone of voice can't be picked up over the internet.

[Francois Tremblay]

A lot of things can't be picked up over the Internet. Believe me, I tried.

[ambi]

"retirement is a temporary idea in western civilization - it's going away." - ben stein

the state and the elite intend for everyone to be completely dependent on them. whatever we replace their decrepit system with, it ought to offer 'retirement' for those elderly who desire it as a permanent idea.

i notice there's semantic difficulties, so how about this...

if i have fresh food in my frig, enough for a week, am i hoarding? afterall, i'm not using each bit of food right away. if i keep some water and some preserved/dried food in case of emergency (living in earthquake country and all), am i hoarding? afterall, the food might go bad before an earthquake ever comes along.

on the other hand, what if i collect all the gasoline from miles around, more than i could use myself for 100 years, just because i want to make sure everyone else doesn't have any and i will be in a position of power in case of shortage (a shortage i might be causing myself) .. isn't that hoarding?

if need is the driving factor, well, we all need food security. we all need energy security. but no one needs a huge mound of goods that they can't - and couldn't ever - really use.

(and, no, this doesn't mean we set up "use councils" or whatever...)

[Francois Tremblay]

What's the alternative to retirement? (apart from working until you die, which does not sound great)

[ambi]

huh? no one said we need an alternative to retirement. i said the state/elite intend to eliminate retirement (the work-till-you-die that you speak of), and that an alternative ought to include retirement. maybe it'd help if you read the post before responding.

[Francois Tremblay]

Fine, but what is the alternative?

[ambi]

again, reading would help.

your position revolves around the issue of hoarding, which i addressed semantically above, making the case that it is not the issue that you believe it is.