Paedophilia (On Consent Generally)

[hai]

How should a decent society deal with sexually predatory individuals? Even in a classless society issues as basic and instinctive like this are still going to arise. Is for example the Greek tradition of pedrastry abusive? Is finding pre-pubescent, newly pubescent children attractive alone a mental illness or deficiency?

Oh, and at what age can a child reasonably consent to such a significant act as sex. Is slapping an arbitrary age as the point of maturity unnecessary or do you think 16-18 is a naturally sufficent milestone for adulthood which we would be best to stick to?

[Francois Tremblay]

Slapping an arbitrary age on "adulthood" is unnecessary. Each child should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

In general, if a child runs away from home, he should be given all the rights necessary for him to live independently.

If an age is found necessary, then it cannot be higher than 14.

Having sex with children younger than 14 is ethically wrong and should be dealt with, especially when parents or other family members engage in such behaviour. We need to stop using "sex offenders" as scapegoats and address the plague of child abuse by parents and families in a permanent manner.

[Guest]

Slapping an arbitrary age on "adulthood" is unnecessary. Each child should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

In general, if a child runs away from home, he should be given all the rights necessary for him to live independently.

If an age is found necessary, then it cannot be higher than 14.

Having sex with children younger than 14 is ethically wrong and should be dealt with, especially when parents or other family members engage in such behaviour. We need to stop using "sex offenders" as scapegoats and address the plague of child abuse by parents and families in a permanent manner.

Dealt with how exactly? Its proven largely futile up until now to "cure" most individuals of these sexual urges.
My guess is the family found out who he/she is they would most likely simply kill or at the least severely assault the perpetrator.

[Francois Tremblay]

No, I am talking about the parents and family members themselves, who commit most of the actual abuse against children. The "sexual offender" concept and the whole "stranger danger" philosophy is a scapegoat to divert our attention from the widespread parental wrongdoings.

[hai]

No, I am talking about the parents and family members themselves, who commit most of the actual abuse against children. The "sexual offender" concept and the whole "stranger danger" philosophy is a scapegoat to divert our attention from the widespread parental wrongdoings.

Whilst I would agree internal abuses of subtle varieties are prevalent to a huge extent within our current concept of the family and that the instituition itself should be "reworked" if you like; its simply undeniable that men and to a lesser extent women do indeed have sexual preferences for pre-pubescent/newly pubescent children.
The fact that various traditions across the globe over the centuries have the ritual of extra-familial pedastry just illustrates the underlying possibility for such preferences in males.
Humans have evolved to procreate and bear children pretty young by our society's current standards. Isn't Juliet in Shakespeare's play 14? Romeo around 18? The life expectancy has advanced a bit since then but you get my point.

[Francois Tremblay]

I don't consider 14 or 18 year olds to be "children." The whole concept of teenagehood was invented in order to keep young adults from running away from home or rebelling against their parents until many years have passed and the investment reaps some rewards (a form of protection of ownership similar to patents, if you want to make an analogy, with the children being the products). It's a form of tribal ageism that you'd think would have disappeared a long time ago.

[Garnier]

How should a decent society deal with sexually predatory individuals? Even in a classless society issues as basic and instinctive like this are still going to arise. Is for example the Greek tradition of pedrastry abusive? Is finding pre-pubescent, newly pubescent children attractive alone a mental illness or deficiency?

Anarchism has to deal with another issue : Is for example the Greek tradition of pederasty abusive?

I don't know and don't care! If my child has been approached by a pederast i'll take whatever weapon i could find and kill him. Old greeks or not.

Oh, and at what age can a child reasonably consent to such a significant act as sex. Is slapping an arbitrary age as the point of maturity unnecessary or do you think 16-18 is a naturally sufficent milestone for adulthood which we would be best to stick to?

Simple reasoning : 12 year old girl and 12 year old boy can do it if they want.
12 year old girl and 65 year old man cannot, anarchy or otherwise.
I know that this Hai person would be happy to have sex with 7 year olds because he comes from that Vana's forum of pedophile champions.

Whilst I would agree internal abuses of subtle varieties are prevalent to a huge extent within our current concept of the family and that the instituition itself should be "reworked" if you like;
The fact that various traditions across the globe over the centuries have the ritual of extra-familial pedastry just illustrates the underlying possibility for such preferences in males.
Humans have evolved to procreate and bear children pretty young by our society's current standards. Isn't Juliet in Shakespeare's play 14? Romeo around 18? The life expectancy has advanced a bit since then but you get my point.

Call me a petty-bourgeois but i cannot find something wrong with 18 year old having sex with 14 year old. On the other hand it's weard to say the least for a 30 year old to have sex with 14 year old.

its simply undeniable that men and to a lesser extent women do indeed have sexual preferences for pre-pubescent/newly pubescent children.

How did you came to this conclusion? Undeniable? We are living in denial? We are latent pedophiles and pederasts? Have you been molested as a child? You've got some serious issues my man.

Wait untill pederasty/pedophilia is considered legal (Holland is going there in 15-20 years, there's a political party fighting for the pedophile cause) and you'll enjoy! And there's NAMBLA for you? Or you prefere young girls? Sorry.

[Francois Tremblay]

Garnier, it seems to me that you're the one who is trying to ignore and stamp out the problem. You don't seem to want to actually understand it first. Quite an un-Anarchist attitude.

Yes, yes, we know, you're a big macho breeder and you wanna kill any "stranger dangers": we're not taking away your right to do that, so keep the testosterone down please.

This leads us to another, rather uncomfortable question: how do we know YOU'RE not sexually molesting your child, and making a big storm out of the issue because of your guilt complex?

[Zazaban]

I have heard people say that they lost their virginity to an older person at ages as young as six and don't believe it was wrong, in fact some recall it quite fondly. Of course, I've never met these people in person, so I cannot comment on their mental well-being.

[Jawn Disease]

Children have different cognitive capabilities than teenagers and adults.
Children are sexual beings.
The difference between children and adults is that while children might understand that sexual activities feel good, they do not understand why the sexual activity is happening.
Just because children are sexual, it doesn't mean they should have sex.
As children have different cognitive capababilities, they cannot reasonably give consent to sexual activity.
It is therefore morally wrong to have sex with a child.

I do not think that pedophilia is a sexual orientation.
If it's just 'child-love', with no touching -- what makes it different from a fondness for kids?
If it's child sex, I cannot see how anyone could possibly find that arousing except for the two following reasons:
1. It's taboo
2. It's an extreme powertrip.

That sensation that could perhaps be gained by having sex with a child is the same sensation sought after by rapists: excitement and a power trip. Not worth it, justifiably punishable by extreme methods

[Francois Tremblay]

How are you gonna solve the problem if you are focused on punishment? That's a neanderthal attitude. If the desire to abuse or rape little children is caused by sexual frustration or having been abused at a young age, punishing people is not gonna solve either of these problems and is just gonna drive them even more (because all you're doing is frustrating them even more and abusing them even more).

Feeding the frenzy of machoism is not a solution to anything. We know all of you "punishment" machos have a big penis, please go bury it in your girlfriend instead of wagging it in our faces. It's what this society is all about, and we're sick of it. I'm sick of it.

Instead of repeating the same patterns of abuse on each other with our lower dangly brain, let's use our higher brain, all right? I'm the fucking mutualist, I thought you guys were supposed to be the creative revolutionaries looking for new ways to relate to each other. If your ideology only applies to people you agree with, then what good is it?

[Maggot]

I guess you can always send the offender to some sort of collective rehab facility.

[Jawn Disease]

How are you gonna solve the problem if you are focused on punishment? That's a neanderthal attitude. If the desire to abuse or rape little children is caused by sexual frustration or having been abused at a young age, punishing people is not gonna solve either of these problems and is just gonna drive them even more (because all you're doing is frustrating them even more and abusing them even more).

Feeding the frenzy of machoism is not a solution to anything. We know all of you "punishment" machos have a big penis, please go bury it in your girlfriend instead of wagging it in our faces. It's what this society is all about, and we're sick of it. I'm sick of it.

Instead of repeating the same patterns of abuse on each other with our lower dangly brain, let's use our higher brain, all right? I'm the fucking mutualist, I thought you guys were supposed to be the creative revolutionaries looking for new ways to relate to each other. If your ideology only applies to people you agree with, then what good is it?

You sure are a bitter little man.

Who said I was focused on punishment?
Who I said I think punishment is the way to 'solve' the 'problem' of pedophilia?

What if the desire to abuse, rape, or even gently and lovingly caress a little boy's bumbum is not caused by sexual frustration or childhood abuse? What if that's only a factor within a wide range of factors, one of which is personal choice?

Punishment macho? Hello, I'm Jawn. I'm an anarchist. Not a police officer.

Don't put words in my mouth please.

[Guest]

Oh, and at what age can a child reasonably consent to such a significant act as sex. Is slapping an arbitrary age as the point of maturity unnecessary or do you think 16-18 is a naturally sufficent milestone for adulthood which we would be best to stick to?

Simple reasoning : 12 year old girl and 12 year old boy can do it if they want.
12 year old girl and 65 year old man cannot, anarchy or otherwise.
I know that this Hai person would be happy to have sex with 7 year olds because he comes from that Vana's forum of pedophile champions.

With all due respect and all, Garnier, do you work for News International Inc?

Whilst I would agree internal abuses of subtle varieties are prevalent to a huge extent within our current concept of the family and that the instituition itself should be "reworked" if you like;
The fact that various traditions across the globe over the centuries have the ritual of extra-familial pedastry just illustrates the underlying possibility for such preferences in males.
Humans have evolved to procreate and bear children pretty young by our society's current standards. Isn't Juliet in Shakespeare's play 14? Romeo around 18? The life expectancy has advanced a bit since then but you get my point.

Call me a petty-bourgeois but i cannot find something wrong with 18 year old having sex with 14 year old. On the other hand it's weard to say the least for a 30 year old to have sex with 14 year old.

Why? This just merely sounds like a typical Western "half-your-age-plus-seven" concept of relationships.

its simply undeniable that men and to a lesser extent women do indeed have sexual preferences for pre-pubescent/newly pubescent children.

How did you came to this conclusion? Undeniable? We are living in denial? We are latent pedophiles and pederasts? Have you been molested as a child? You've got some serious issues my man.

I accidently left out "some" as a qualifier in the said statement. Considering the concept and my earlier points I would have hoped the concept would have led you to something less extreme than you interpreted.
In consideration of the qualifier, my point stands up. The reality can either be dealt with or simply become obscured by self-righteous mud-slinging. You've clearly shown your preference here; I would've expected better from this forum.

Wait untill pederasty/pedophilia is considered legal (Holland is going there in 15-20 years, there's a political party fighting for the pedophile cause) and you'll enjoy! And there's NAMBLA for you? Or you prefere young girls? Sorry.

[/quote]

Just to set your indignant, reactionary tendencies you have displayed at rest, I'm actually 18 years of age, and I believe all my girlfriends have been older than me in fact.
Personally i find most men horrifically unattractive, but not all in fairness.
In response to your apology, I forgive you, although I'm not sure how you can forgive yourself.

[Garnier]

Garnier, it seems to me that you're the one who is trying to ignore and stamp out the problem. You don't seem to want to actually understand it first. Quite an un-Anarchist attitude.

Yes, yes, we know, you're a big macho breeder and you wanna kill any "stranger dangers": we're not taking away your right to do that, so keep the testosterone down please.

Yes, i do understand the problem and yes the major point is prevention not punishment.
But in an imaginary anarchy (say this is...2011 or something) start has to be made and how do we deal with this sort of things?

This leads us to another, rather uncomfortable question: how do we know YOU'RE not sexually molesting your child, and making a big storm out of the issue because of your guilt complex?

Don't have any children yet. I know a family that has gone through the hell of child abuse.
Guilt complex? If i disagree i'm a potential pedo? I don't get it...
The 'issue' here is such that one cannot know how will react to the matter...

Children have different cognitive capabilities than teenagers and adults.
Children are sexual beings.
The difference between children and adults is that while children might understand that sexual activities feel good, they do not understand why the sexual activity is happening.
Just because children are sexual, it doesn't mean they should have sex.
As children have different cognitive capababilities, they cannot reasonably give consent to sexual activity.
It is therefore morally wrong to have sex with a child.

I do not think that pedophilia is a sexual orientation.
If it's just 'child-love', with no touching -- what makes it different from a fondness for kids?
If it's child sex, I cannot see how anyone could possibly find that arousing except for the two following reasons:
1. It's taboo
2. It's an extreme powertrip.

That sensation that could perhaps be gained by having sex with a child is the same sensation sought after by rapists: excitement and a power trip. Not worth it, justifiably punishable by extreme methods

I totaly agree. They cannot give consent and such an act could damage their personality and psyche so it's wrong.

I have heard people say that they lost their virginity to an older person at ages as young as six and don't believe it was wrong, in fact some recall it quite fondly. Of course, I've never met these people in person, so I cannot comment on their mental well-being.

How can a six year old sexualy relate to an grown up individual? Please read 'Summerhill' by A.S.Neill. Kids are sexual but not coitus oriented sexuality. What sort of relationship there could be?

Feeding the frenzy of machoism is not a solution to anything. We know all of you "punishment" machos have a big penis, please go bury it in your girlfriend instead of wagging it in our faces. It's what this society is all about, and we're sick of it. I'm sick of it.

Instead of repeating the same patterns of abuse on each other with our lower dangly brain, let's use our higher brain, all right? I'm the fucking mutualist, I thought you guys were supposed to be the creative revolutionaries looking for new ways to relate to each other. If your ideology only applies to people you agree with, then what good is it?

Francois how would you react in a case of your child's being molested? Try to understand the pedophile? Reason with him? What's machoism has to do with this? I'm not aware that protecting people one cares for is machoism or wagging one's penis in someone's face.

I'm also a mutualist. My ideology applies to everybody, not just people i agree with.
Not sure there's a mutualist standpoint on this issue.

Just to set your indignant, reactionary tendencies you have displayed at rest, I'm actually 18 years of age, and I believe all my girlfriends have been older than me in fact.
Personally i find most men horrifically unattractive, but not all in fairness.
In response to your apology, I forgive you, although I'm not sure how you can forgive yourself.

I don't understand you man. Please clarify your position on the issue. What are you saying?
What age of consent are you in favour with? How is this issue related to anarchism?