An article worth reading

[arjaze]

Roderick Long is good discussion actually...


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california sex crimes lawyer

[Noleaders]

If aggression wasn't beneficial then wars and invasions would not have been a historical fact in the record. As I said on anti-state.com, if a defense force really wanted to profit, it would have its own enforcers hire people to commit crimes, and then go in and get those people, thus proving their worth as a security agency (while at the same time, getting peoples assets and selling them on a black market).

Basically, a mobster state. Even Rothbard concedes it's possible.

War is v. profitable, also very risky and expensive which is hard to sell to a non captive consumer base (public choice problem).

Would these protection agencies be attacking their own customers? Cos then they would have pretty appalling records for prevention which alone would be enough cause for suspicion.
Or would they be attacking anyone, in which case they are brought into direct war and end up becoming blacklisted from any court (since they dont use arbitration) making war its ONLY choice so a very expensive project.

Of course its possible for it to turn into a state, just like democracy (or any system imaginable) is, the question is what is more likely and whether the incentive structure is right.
This isnt a system i feel wedded too, id prefer more co-operative forms of protection, but i do think it could work.

Yeah, but one guy being an asshole is a whole lot easier to deal with than a whole group.

People will always form groups though.

Sure, you can hire your police associations, I am merely showing you how those "police assocations" devolve into the state. You're welcome to create a state if you so chose. I can only try to convince you how it can turn into a state. Rather than object to the reasonable scenario, you change the discussion to something else entirely, such as "what about the weak people?"

There will not always be a need for defense associations, and any society where that is the case is not anarchistic in my mind. I mean, if I were to write the converse about a communist society it could be said that police forces were statist inventions in order to keep the masses subdued. Only of course I would never ever do that, because even from a communist point of view I see no "continual need" for police forces.

Im not changing the discussion entirely. Some people are stronger and craftier than others, in a world where defence only exists on the individual level then these are gonna win out. This is one reason why people will form groups so the question is how should these groups be organised. Obviously it will have to be based on voluntary association but there is always a chance these voluntary associations could turn back into the state which is something i dont think i ever denied, in fact ive argued that preferably they should be consumer co-operatives as well as market based because imo that would give them the most accountability and the least coercive power.
As long as there is disagreement between people there will be need for defence, if this disagreement declines or dissappears then the demand for protection will accordingly but i dont think this could ever happen.

[jack]

Vikings.

Just want to know how a marketeer would deal with piracy and Viking types.

[Noleaders]

Vikings.

Just want to know how a marketeer would deal with piracy and Viking types.

What do you mean? Rogue protection agencies?

[jack]

Lol, now you admit your "protection agencies" are just thugs for hire.

I mean what are you going to do about pirates, theives, gangs, petty theft etc. Don't say they won't exist, because your oh so holy market permits them too.

[Noleaders]

Lol, now you admit your "protection agencies" are just thugs for hire.

No, i thought you were asking what would happen if one went bad.
Actually id prefer living in a more co-operative form of defence, but id make do with a private insurance based one.

I mean what are you going to do about pirates, theives, gangs, petty theft etc. Don't say they won't exist, because your oh so holy market permits them too.

I know it does, any system does, the answer is to protect people from them i dunno how better to say that.
What do you want to know? How they will be prevented? Punished? How will courts work?
There's a lot of issues and im glad to discuss them but please be a bit more precise.