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Max Stirner

Anarchism: What it is and what it is not.

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Max Stirner

Postby African_Prince » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:22 pm

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For him, property simply comes about through might: "Whoever knows how to take, to defend, the thing, to him belongs property." And, "What I have in my power, that is my own. So long as I assert myself as holder, I am the proprietor of the thing." He says, "I do not step shyly back from your property, but look upon it always as my property, in which I respect nothing. Pray do the like with what you call my property!"[5] Stirner considers the world and everything in it, including other persons, available to one's taking or use without moral constraint[6] —that rights do not exist in regard to objects and people at all. He sees no rationality in taking the interests of others into account unless doing so furthers one's self-interest, which he believes is the only legitimate reason for acting


How can he possibly be considered an anarchist if he thought that exercising power and dominance over other humans is morally permissable? How is that not authoritarian?
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Re: Max Stirner

Postby |Y| » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:23 pm

Because it is possessive right.
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Re: Max Stirner

Postby Zazaban » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:21 pm

He doesn't believe in morality, so 'moral permissibility' is null when applied to him. He's simply talking in terms of raw, unqualified reality. Of course, random chaos of people dominating each other is not in anyone's self-interest, so no intelligent egoist would want a world where said raw, unqualified reality permeates. Artificial ethical systems are put in place.
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Re: Max Stirner

Postby |Y| » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:07 am

Indeed, possessive right is a fact of nature, objective reality. The reason you extend it to be more about property that you utilize (rather than possess 100% of the time, but rather "possess on a pretty frequent ocassion") is to facilitate that current human luxury makes it necessary.

Primitive societies (such as the Aka) make no distinction, tools are shared freely, if no one is using a tool then it's fair game. That's factual reality. Whether or not this can apply to a full human society is anyones guess, but it's not exactly necessary to remain consistant.
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Re: Max Stirner

Postby Noleaders » Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:43 pm

|Y| wrote:Because it is possessive right.


How?

In stirner's worldview it wouldnt be wrong to take all your possessions away from you (because there is no such thing as right and wrong and there is no right whatsoever in anything)

possessive rights could come about in an artificial ethical system as zazaban says but i seriously doubt stirner was on about possessive rights.
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Re: Max Stirner

Postby Noleaders » Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:42 pm

Also technically max stirner wasnt an anarchist, though he was certainly a huge influence, in fact he was critical of anarchism as an ideology (cos its an ideology) despite having broadly similar ends in mind.
The Anarchists are simply unterrified Jeffersonian Democrats. They believe that 'the best government is that which governs least,' and that which governs least is no government at all.
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Re: Max Stirner

Postby coup-detat » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:55 pm

Noleaders wrote:Also technically max stirner wasnt an anarchist, though he was certainly a huge influence, in fact he was critical of anarchism as an ideology (cos its an ideology) despite having broadly similar ends in mind.


I may be wrong, but didn't Max Stirner advocate socialism?
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Re: Max Stirner

Postby Noleaders » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:35 pm

I dont think so, ask zazaban, but his "union of egoists" could mean a lot of things.
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Re: Max Stirner

Postby Zazaban » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:48 pm

The AFAQ's section on Stirner was the first thing about him that made sense to me. It was Egoism from an ansyn position. Stirner is sort of like a rorschach test, anyhow, what really matters is what the individual gets from it and not necessarily what was in Stirner's head.

I take the 'might is right' world as barren, blank-state world. It is not a desirable place for anybody to be. People want stability, so they form unions of egoists, which it is important to note Stirner called unions based on love. The union of egoists is based on mutual self-interest, and anybody may join or leave whenever they wish. A union could be based around anarcho-syndicalism, for example, or anarcho-communism, or mutualism, or whatever its members hold as the best system.
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Re: Max Stirner

Postby coup-detat » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:58 pm

It seems like online music sharing is a good example of how this works, as |Y| said on another thread. People are willing to share because of their greed for what others have. Ha! Sorry, I just kinda had a click moment and now understand egoism.
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Re: Max Stirner

Postby Zazaban » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:17 pm

:D
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Re: Max Stirner

Postby coup-detat » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:23 pm

Don't get your hopes up, I'm don't think I'll call myself an egoist yet. Maybe I will with more reading, but not yet, Zazaban.
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Re: Max Stirner

Postby Zazaban » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:25 pm

I don't expect you to, I'm just happy I made something go click. :P

And I'm actually the only egoist I know of. At least the only one who actively theorizes. So there isn't much to read that's very current.
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"Greed in its fullest sense is the only possible basis of communist society."
~ The Right to Be Greedy
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Re: Max Stirner

Postby Noleaders » Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:58 am

coup-detat wrote:It seems like online music sharing is a good example of how this works, as |Y| said on another thread. People are willing to share because of their greed for what others have. Ha! Sorry, I just kinda had a click moment and now understand egoism.


Yeah that would be egoist, though i think the best example is friendships and relationships.
Zazaban wrote:I don't expect you to, I'm just happy I made something go click. :P

And I'm actually the only egoist I know of. At least the only one who actively theorizes. So there isn't much to read that's very current.


Im torn at the moment between egoism and natural rights, roderick long makes some pursuasive arguments for the latter.
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Re: Max Stirner

Postby thelastindividual » Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:03 pm

Noleaders wrote:m torn at the moment between egoism and natural rights, roderick long makes some pursuasive arguments for the latter.


I'm actually with Vichy on this one. Natural rights are enlightenment hooey
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