Nationalism *is* compatible with anarchism

[Yarrow]

nationalism, in the name, is about protecting the nation. I agree with African Prince that pride in our communities, large and small, is a good thing. As long as there is no exclusion (as nationalism seems to bring), then where's the issue? i think we need to agree on a definition of nationalism.

nationalism holds that 'the people' in the doctrine of popular sovereignty is the nation, and that as a result only nation-states founded on the principle of national self-determination are legitimate.

that sounds applicable.

[African_Prince]

nationalism, in the name, is about protecting the nation. I agree with African Prince that pride in our communities, large and small, is a good thing.

I'm not interested in ethnic or racial pride, personally. I had no choice in being Black or African so I'm neither proud or ashamed of it. I think love is a more useful emotion than pride is so I'm more concerned with unity.

As long as there is no exclusion (as nationalism seems to bring), then where's the issue?

Even if there is exclusion, while anyone is welcome to criticize this as shallow or xenophobic, how is it authoritarian or oppressive? When Idi Amin expelled Ugandans of South Asian origin from Uganda in the '70s that was authoritarian but I consider that to be supremacy, not nationalism. In my ideal world, no community or group of people could monopolize any geographical territory or expel outsiders from 'their' land.

i think we need to agree on a definition of nationalism.

My definition of nationalism is the idea that all members of a group belong to one nation and should co-operate and love one another as though they were a large family. My nationalist views are based on unity and self-determination . Nationalism doesn't necessarily entail separatism (most people associate with people who are not family members) or supremacy (most people don't want to oppress or subjugate non-family members).

Anarcho-communism fits neatly with my nationalist views, actually. I believe that unity requires equality and to me, egalitarianism necessarily involves anarchism since two individuals can only 'unite' if they have an egalitarian relationship. Unity also involves co-operation which is where my preference for a gift economy comes in. Self-determination can only be achieved through direct democracy and not the representative oligarchy of the modern state.
Freedom (anarchism) and equality (communism) necessarily involve the other.

"nationalism holds that 'the people' in the doctrine of popular sovereignty is the nation, and that as a result only nation-states founded on the principle of national self-determination are legitimate."

that sounds applicable.

Nationalism has nothing to do with statism.

[jack]

I'm done with this bullshit, you're a fucking idiot and you're not a goddamn anarchist, you're a fucking racist. See the quote below:

[I can say that I personally wouldn't date or marry interracially

[African_Prince]

I'm done with this bullshit, you're a fucking idiot and you're not a goddamn anarchist, you're a fucking racist. See the quote below:

[I can say that I personally wouldn't date or marry interracially

How on Earth does this make me a "racist"? It's my personal preference. You are a complete nuthead and I'm still an anarchist.

Not once did I say I was "against" interracial marriage or dating. My own grandmother was mixed.

[jack]

I'm done with this bullshit, you're a fucking idiot and you're not a goddamn anarchist, you're a fucking racist. See the quote below:

[I can say that I personally wouldn't date or marry interracially

How on Earth does this make me a "racist"? It's my personal preference. You are a complete nuthead and I'm still an anarchist.

Not once did I say I was "against" interracial marriage or dating. My own grandmother was mixed.

You are implying that somehow your race is automatically more attractive, more intellegent, more everything that makes a woman attractive.

[African_Prince]

You are implying that somehow your race is automatically more attractive, more intellegent, more everything that makes a woman attractive.

This is complete nonsense, beauty is subjective. I'm not attracted to obese women, that doesn't mean I think thin women are superior.

Besides, there are beautiful women in all racial and ethnic groups. African women are just my preference, I can relate to them in a way that I can't with most non-African women, there's a solidarity between us.

Anarchism : without rulers or contrary to authority. Nationalism does not contradict anarchist principles. I have no desire to rule over or to dominate non-African people.

[jack]

Whatever, I'm done with this shit.

YOU ARE A FUCKING RACIST, NOT AN ANARCHIST. If you really want to seperate from White society then get off the internet, and stop being an anarchist. Lest we forget that every anarchist theorist has been white, ZOMG KILL WHITEY!

[African_Prince]

Whatever, I'm done with this shit.

YOU ARE A FUCKING RACIST, NOT AN ANARCHIST. If you really want to seperate from White society then get off the internet, and stop being an anarchist. Lest we forget that every anarchist theorist has been white, ZOMG KILL WHITEY!

Not once did I say I wanted to separate from Whites or to "kill Whitey".

Secondly, no culture or group has a trademark on a good idea. My belief in anarchism is a logical extension of my belief in egalitarianism which African unity requires. It's an idea, White people don't "own" it.

I'm an anarchist whether you like it or not. I'm opposed to all forms of authoritarianism, hierarchy, coercion, dominance etc. I'm a more consistent anarchist than you are, assuming you eat animal products or justify authority over children, as so many "anarchists" do.

[Zazaban]

Jack, African Prince has not once said he wants to separate from white people, or that he thinks that they are somehow inferior. He just says that he, himself, prefers black women. I don't see the issue with this. Some people may prefer redheads, that doesn't mean they have some violent hatred of brunettes.

[jack]

Jack, African Prince has not once said he wants to separate from white people, or that he thinks that they are somehow inferior. He just says that he, himself, prefers black women. I don't see the issue with this. Some people may prefer redheads, that doesn't mean they have some violent hatred of brunettes.

I saw him write it somewhere, I just dug through a few threads to find it, I'll check other places later.

He didn't say he "perfers black women", he said that he wouldn't date or marry interracially. That's excluding attractive women because of their race. I perfer Latina and Arab women, that doesn't mean I rule out whites, blacks, asians, or anything else because of their race. Saying you wouldn't date someone of another race is to see them as inferior.

Also, race is bullshit, ethnicity is real, but race is something entirely made up with little genetic evidence other than skin color.

[Zazaban]

If he did somewhere say that he holds some kind of contempt towards white people, I shall take that back.

Also, his reasons for not dating/marrying interracially were cultural, not genetic, so I could understand that. Don't believe in the existence of race, myself, though.

[Yarrow]

personally i would understand people having contempt for whitey, especially if they lived a) in a non-white land or b) in a city. doesn't mean i condone it, but i certainly get it.

i'm beginning to dislike you, jack. sorry to say.

you know the best thing about your new avatar, zman? wildey looks so understanding. brings an empathy to your posts that would be quieter, were it not for those doe eyes.