A real 'revolution'. Are you willing to go to jail?

[African_Prince]

If we really want the state to be dismantled, isn't it a little naive/Marxist to think that just by spreading anarchist ideas, the state will magically and gradually 'wither away'? The idea of anarchism alone won't do anything, it can only inspire people to stop behaving as though the state has any legitimate authority over them. Isn't it pointless to be an idealogical anarchist if you aren't doing (or not doing) something to bring us one step closer to the abolition of the state?

Here's what I'm getting at. If 90% of the population were anarchists but still paid their taxes, the government would still exist. If you want the state to die, shouldn't we all stop paying taxes? What better course of revolution than this? I don't want money I earn being used to build prisons, fund the military, arm the police etc. If a large enough group of non-violent anarchists were to avoid paying their taxes, more attention would be given to the 'movement' and the idea might spread. Why aren't more anarchists setting up entire communities that refuse to pay taxes?

[shinyyy]

There aren't enough yet. By spreading the ideas we'll hopefully get to the point where there are.

[jack]

Fucking stupid. Not paying taxes doesn't overthrow the bourgeoisie, or reorganize the economy.

What is it with the pacifism on this forum? Why are people opposed to using the tool that keeps the capitalist class in power? I would use violence to save a life, so why wouldn't I use violence to save the lives of millions, and emancipate billions from the wage system?

[patrickhenry]

If a large enough group of non-violent anarchists

I would say 99.9% of anarchists are non-violent...The revolutionary anarchists don't see what their doing as violence but more as self-defense or survival. How can you even make a division among anarchists as violent or non-violent? Yes I am more of the evolutionary mold but I 100% understand my revolutionary comrades. Capitalism is slavery.killing us slowly. Revolutionary is self-defense. not violence.

[jack]

If a large enough group of non-violent anarchists

I would say 99.9% of anarchists are non-violent...The revolutionary anarchists don't see what their doing as violence but more as self-defense or survival. How can you even make a division among anarchists as violent or non-violent? Yes I am more of the evolutionary mold but I 100% understand my revolutionary comrades. Capitalism is slavery.killing us slowly. Revolutionary is self-defense. not violence.

That's how I look at it. However, by dictionary definition it is still violence to use force on someone. Almost all anarchists other than a few measly Christians who tried to call themselves such have supported violence. Revolutionary violence is inherently self defense.

[patrickhenry]

I just get pissed when people just assume because your a evolutionist automatically makes you a pacifist. I'm not pacifistic. My personal ideology is evolution would be more efficent then revolution. Not to say at some point you wont have conflict but not on the scale of mass revolution. and less likely to spiral into a dictatorship. Just my opinion. But if all else fails then we have no choice but to "defend ourselves"

[Saturnine]

Fucking stupid. Not paying taxes doesn't overthrow the bourgeoisie, or reorganize the economy.

What is it with the pacifism on this forum? Why are people opposed to using the tool that keeps the capitalist class in power? I would use violence to save a life, so why wouldn't I use violence to save the lives of millions, and emancipate billions from the wage system?

Because a revolution, in this current time would fail.

[jack]

Yes, but that doesn't mean we should reject revolution, it should be what we agitate for. That way when it comes we'll be ready to assume ourselves as the vanguard* of it.


*Before someone bitches at me, I mean vanguard as in leading and being at the forefront, not Leninist. A vanguard of ideas.

[African_Prince]

Fucking stupid. Not paying taxes doesn't overthrow the bourgeoisie, or reorganize the economy.

What is it with the pacifism on this forum? Why are people opposed to using the tool that keeps the capitalist class in power? I would use violence to save a life, so why wouldn't I use violence to save the lives of millions, and emancipate billions from the wage system?

For you to deny the usefulness of not paying taxes is absurd. Even if it isn't the only solution, how can you justify giving money to an organization whose authority you regard as illegitimate? You're willing to sacrifice others for your revolution but you aren't willing to sacrifice yourself. A real 'revolutionary' would be prepared to go to jail or spend the rest of his life undergrond. What do you think pays for the police, military, prions etc? TAXES! If everyone stopped paying their taxes, the government would have no source of income.

Personally, I don't think the idea of 'evolution' will go very far, not if immediate action isn't taken NOW. The evolution idea doesn't seem that far off from Marx's belief that the state would magically and eventually wither away under Communist, totalitarianism.

Revolutionary is self-defense. not violence.

I do understand this perspective but I can't accept initiating acts of violence on other people. If a police officer tries to arrest you, you are justified in using whatever force necessary to resist arrest, even if it results in killing. However, I still think this would be tactically unwise and will only lead to the idea of anarchists as terrorists. I do not, however, think you are justified in blowing up police stations with officers inside or the White House or something like that.

At the end of the day, anarchists talk a good game but none of us really want to go to jail or spend the rest of our lives running from the state. Let's keep telling ourselves that we're going to convince a large enough amount of people to see our perspective and the state will suddently become obsolete one day, I guess.

[patrickhenry]

good luck convincing a large group of people not to pay taxes...You have a better chance with revolution.

[coup-detat]

I have an anarchist friend who refuses to get an anarchy A tattoo until he goes to jail for his beliefs. He's thinking he's going to high jack a bulldozer and see how much of the wall between America and Mexico he can tear down before getting arrested.

[thelastindividual]

I have an anarchist friend who refuses to get an anarchy A tattoo until he goes to jail for his beliefs. He's thinking he's going to high jack a bulldozer and see how much of the wall between America and Mexico he can tear down before getting arrested.

On the one hand that's pretty fucking badass. On the other hand he probably:

A) Doesn't have the balls to do it
B) If he did the US would probably have the cops shoot him before he got anywhere near the border and claim it was an accident

And if he succeeded then everyone will just be like: 'Oh those silly anarchists always vandalising things, when will they learn to grow up and live peacefully in the state'

[coup-detat]

He's actually already made the plans on where to hijack a bulldozer and how to and everything. But it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't do it. Mainly if he knocks up his girlfriend, which seems pretty likely, then he'd have to be a parent and he'd recognize that he couldn't be in jail.

[Zazaban]

Doing stuff like that doesn't strike me as bright, it's impossible that it will actually work, and will just re-enforce the image of anarchists being mindless vandals.

[coup-detat]

Unless they take it as a more intelligent protest to how we are treating immigrants from Mexico, illegal or not. He's not expecting it to really work, but he is doing it as a protest.