White Middle-Class Males

[Guest]

what's with the "pot. kettle. black." shit?

[Din]

[color=green]what's with the "pot. kettle. black." shit?</font color=green> <br> <br>Quite simply that it is rather hypocritical to denounce people for the same thing that you are doing. <br> <br>[color=green]just don't say it is MY basic tenet</font color=green> <br> <br>Well, sorry to disappoint you, but it is. There is no objective universality here. <br> <br>[color=green]it is simply what the word means, if not no authority, perhaps, rule ... same thing</font color=green> <br> <br>Rules and Authority are hardly the same thing. And I can certainly think of various anarchists who quite willingly accept the presence of both rules and authority. <br> <br>[color=green]i know that the direct translation from the greek means w/o government, so don't deduct any anarchist points from me for that...</font color=green> <br> <br>Points deducted. The direct translation - the etymology - of anarchy is without rulers. And the term rulers is not synonymous with government, rules or authority. <br> <br>[color=green]unfortunately words have meanings, and get this, i didn't make them up!</font color=green> <br> <br>Unfortunately for you, words have multiple meanings. And get this - you do not have a monopoly on what a given word, be it authority or anarchy, means. <br> <br>[color=green]once again i've never made claims to being an anarchist</font color=green> <br> <br>So why are you even here telling off anarchists and giving them the holier-than-thou lecture? <br> <br>And I like to point out that I did try to be nice to you. But if you wish to get all hot and bothered by some criticism, so be it.

[Guest]

i was really asking what "pot. kettle. black." meant... further more, i am holier than thou, and i have the certification to prove it... and i meant rule as in the rule of a ruler and not as in rules... anyhow...

[Guest]

and also i was actually inquiring as to why you are so fond of critizing others... not getting insulted and hot (although i am rather hot, wink.) but i was drunk last night and things came out wrong i reckon

[Guest]

I just happened to hit on this page doing a search for info on Zapata. This is a really interesting discussion, but lumping "white, middle-class males" into a group destroys the concept of individuality, and, individuality would seem to be at the core of anarchism, no matter which particular form of anarchism one supports. Is it worse to define one's self by pigmentation, sex, class or lifestyle than it is to define another by any combination of those things, and isn't every individual simply a minority of one, with each of us being privileged/limited by our circumstances?

[Kevin]

[color=green] i was really asking what "pot. kettle. black." </font color=green> <br> <br>A referance to the phrase, not quite as widely known as many think: "That is like the pot calling the kettle black." <br> <br>The implication is supposed to be that the pot is as black as, or more black than, the kettle. Of course nowadays with all sorts of exotic metals and production methods for our pots and kettles it can be kinda confusing, as a pot is just as likely to be pure white and a kettle green with blue polka dots. All of which I suppose would have very different implications [img]/wwwthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[branchjordainia]

i know that phrase actually... i'm slow.

[Guest]

I've been involved in the North American anarchist movement for 15+ years and I've thought about this situation frequently. Lately I've found it to be annoying, because the jealous anti-anarchist leftists have been using the racial composition of the anarchist movement as an argument against the ideas of anarchism. Of course, these arguments are fallacious, but they still are pretty offensive and annoying. <br> <br>I've come to the conclusion that there is a simple explanation to why the North American has been predominantly white for a long time. It's because of the history of the movement over the past half century. Anarchism has been a marginalized and unknown political philosophy until about five years ago. As soon as the movement and the tendency became more famous, infamous, and better known, we saw all kinds of people becoming interested in anarchism. Including people of color. Before this upsurge started 5 years ago, anarchism was unknown to most people. It's really unfair to blame the anarchist movement for its racial composition when it was so marginal until recently. And many people of color gravitated towards socialism and communism during the 60s because those tendencies had a lot of momentum coming out of the early and mid 20th century. <br> <br>I would also point out the fact that US and Canadian anarchism draw heavily from the punk movement, which has long been a white working class cultural phenomenon. <br> <br>Anarchism in North America has alot of catching up to do in this department. I think we are doing pretty good on this score, considering where we came from. <br> <br>Chuck0

[godfuc]

I have mixed views on the whole thing, I'm not a racist so I can't say I don't like White people (that and I'm white). But I doi see more white racist than any other group, so Being that I am against racism I find my racist fighting is more directed toward whites. Also semi on the same subject, I saw a bumper sticker on a new Cadillac Escalade with a single white male at the wheel that read: The melting pot is full. Well if that isn't the shittist thing I have seen in a long time. I thought that the whites were still pretending to have equal rights. Oh well just means we as anarchist still have alot of work to do.

[Aaron]

[color=green]Anarchism in North America has alot of catching up to do in this department. I think we are doing pretty good on this score, considering where we came from.</font color=green> <br> <br>Absolutely. <br> <br>And anyway, the argument's rather moot when coming from other political groups and not people of color themselves. There is nothing about anarchism that entails anything that should remotely marginalize a particular race of people; on the contrary, it's the exact opposite. <br> <br>Bragging about diversity is just a pot-shot; it has no merit. Unfortunately, many statists - especially Marxists - like to hide the failures of their ideology by distracting people from the debate at hand. Luckily for anarchists, our nature tends to make us less dogmatic.

[Morpheus]

Its also pretty hypocritical considering Engels' racism.

[Aaron]

[color=green]Its also pretty hypocritical considering Engels' racism.</font color=green> <br> <br>They've got Engels, we've got Bakunin... I'd say it's even. Anyway, the simple fact that someone is a racist does not mean that everything that comes from his or her mouth is pure foolishness.

[Morpheus]

True, but try telling that to Louis Proyect.

[Guest]

I thought the anti-semitism of the early anarchist movement was more against judaism than hebrews? Alexander Berkman and Emma Goldman, for instance, would be what we might call 'self-loathers' today. <br> <br>Also, it seems pretty obvious to me that this board is infested with FBI (or smarter-than-average independent reactionaries). All these sectarians are looking to divide us by what our parents were (middle class, white), or what genitals we have - rather than recognizing that many of us are not at ALL middle class in outlook (else we would not be anarchists), and we are working to end sexism &amp; gender roles, and racism (those of us who are anarchists anyways). <br> <br>FUCK the FBI, and FUCK their sectarian pawns!

[Steppenwolf]

Just remember- prawn farming is the most damaging thing to sea life that there is! Far greater than trawl nets or deep-sea fishing. <br> <br> <br>So- don't suck agrarian prawns!!! <br> <br> <br>!SERIOUSLY! <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br>(apologies, this message was co-opted by environmental activists [img]/wwwthreads/images/icons/wink.gif[/img])